CHAIR - The scrutiny of the Tasmanian Railways will now begin. The time scheduled for the scrutiny is two hours. We will be breaking at 1 p.m. for a one-hour lunch break.
I welcome the minister, the chair and CEO to the committee.
Mr FERGUSON - Good afternoon, Chair and colleagues. I introduce TasRail Chair, Samantha Hogg; Chief Executive Officer, Steven Dietrich; and Corporate Affairs & Strategy Manager, Neale Tomlin.
CHAIR - I remind members about practice of seeking additional information for GBEs. The question must be agreed to be taken by the minister or the chair of the board, and the question must be handed in writing to this committee's secretary.
Minister, do you want to make a brief opening statement?
Mr FERGUSON - After a decade of operation, TasRail continues to demonstrate that it is an integral part of the supply chain for Tasmanian heavy industry, miners, the forestry sector - which is growing - and freight forwarders, safely and efficiently hauling a broad and growing range of commodities, linking industry with their export supply chains and customers.
In addition to servicing industry, TasRail is also responsible for managing the Tasmanian rail network. The year 2018-19 marked the successful completion of tranche one of the Tasmanian Freight Rail Revitalisation Program. The four-year $119.6 million program of works that started in 2015 was jointly funded by the Hodgman Liberal Government and the federal Liberal Government, continuing the task of addressing longstanding network issues.
I am pleased to report to the committee that tranche 1 was completed on time, and on budget, and to a high standard. Tranche 1 addressed longstanding rail network issues, such as single points of failure that can lead to derailments, and temporary speed restrictions that reduce train running speeds and efficiency. In 2018-19, TasRail reported an outstanding 23 per cent reduction in temporary speed restrictions across the network, meaning that 92 per cent of the network, as at 30 June, was at its planned operating speed. I am also pleased to report to the committee that the work achieved, in many cases, exceeded the planned quantities set out in the project scope for tranche 1. This occurred as a result of experienced in-house project management, and constructive partnerships with the Tasmanian civil construction sector that has specialised into the rail sector.
I have been fortunate to have been out on the network with our CEO and his team in a hi rail truck, and out on the western line inspecting the works that have been completed. It was a delight to be able to witness that. The Tasmanian rail network crisscrosses much of our state, often in regional areas, meaning that the benefits of this major infrastructure investment are spread throughout the state. Investment in the future of freight rail continues with tranche two of the Tasmanian Freight Rail Revitalisation Program, now underway as of 1 July 2019. Yet another $119.6 million invested in vital rail infrastructure by the two Governments.
The condition of the network and service to industry will continue to improve during this four-year tranche. It is estimated approximately 150 people will be employed in this delivery. Based on the success of the Tasmanian Freight Rail Revitalisation to date, the Australian and Tasmanian Governments have committed a further $136 million for a future tranche 3. As the committee would be aware, the Australian Government has brought forward its commitment to the replacement of TasRail's bulk minerals shiploader at the port of Burnie as part of this tranche. With ship-loading volumes up 22 per cent in 2018-19, and more demand coming online because of our growing economy, this investment is critical.
The balance of tranche 3 - the $96 million - will be invested in rail renewal. The Hodgman Liberal Government has committed significant investment to the revitalisation of freight rail. This means that the civil construction industry has a strong pipeline of future work, and TasRail's customers can be assured that they will have access to reliable and efficient rail logistics into the future.
Ms O'CONNOR - Are you going to read another whole page, because you've been talking for three-and-a-half minutes?
Mr FERGUSON - TasRail has also continued its productive relationships with other key Tasmanian industries, embracing new projects and business opportunities to diversify and grow its business and customer base.
The forestry sector, which we support, continues to show a strong level of interest in using rail as part of its supply chain solutions. I hope we might be able to explore that during the scrutiny hearing.
TasRail experienced two mainline derailments in 2018-19. The very first serious incident at Devonport was discussed at these hearings last year. It has been the subject of a full and forensic investigation by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, the outcome of which I am told is set to be released in the first half of 2020.
The second incident was in May 2019, and while it was a low-speed low-impact incident approaching the yard at Conara, it still constitutes a mainline derailment under TasRail's reporting standards.
Excluding the impact of these incidents, TasRail's above-rail business returned a modest net profit in 2018-19.
Due to the timing of funding allocations, TasRail did close the financial year with substantial borrowings. However, I can tell the committee that these borrowings were repaid in full in July, and TasRail is in a strong financial position, with a bright future ahead.
In rounding out my comments, I would like to announce to the committee the resignation of TasRail Chair, Samantha Hogg, who is with us here at the table, and the appointment of an interim Chair. I take this opportunity to thank Samantha most sincerely for her dedication and contribution to TasRail over the past four-and-a-half years, which have been four-and-a-half of the most productive and constructive years of the company. In her role on the board, she has been instrumental in providing oversight of the financial governance and risk management practices at TasRail, and has set this company up with Steven for future success.
As TasRail's second-ever chair she has overseen the successful delivery of tranche 1 of the Freight Rail Revitalisation Program, started TasRail on its journey towards becoming a more diverse workplace and continued its ongoing pursuit of a zero-harm environment. I wish Samantha well in her future endeavours. She will continue through to the end of December.
The current director, Stephen Cantwell, has been appointed as Chair of TasRail from 1 January 2020. Stephen joined TasRail's board in October 2016 and brings a wealth of operational experience with freight rail, heavy industry, mining and ports, and with the delivery of tranches 2 and 3, including a new shiploader at Burnie and new customer projects all occurring in the next four years, Stephen's operational and commercial know-how will be of great assistance to TasRail. I know that our Chair would like to say a few words to the committee as well.
CHAIR - You only have one minute because time is ticking, so be brief.
Ms HOGG - Thank you, Chair, I will give a short response. I have really enjoyed being part of TasRail over the last four years. Since I joined the board in August 2015 I have witnessed a continuing maturing of all facets of the TasRail business and, like you, I am very confident that the company has a bright future ahead. Over that time, there has been more than a 15 per cent increase in the total freight task haul by TasRail. This has been achieved by TasRail being committed to providing tailored logistic solutions to key Tasmanian industries.
TasRail has become a reliable and a sustainable part of the forestry sector supply chain, growing forestry tonnages by 25 per cent in 2018-19. For some time now, we have been working with the forestry industry on plans to reopen the log siding at Parattah. On Monday this week we conducted our first trials for a limited number of truck deliveries and the first trains will depart later this month.
In my time on the board I have noticed a changing dynamic with our customers beginning to value the safety and environmental benefits of freight rail. Freight transported by rail provides our customers an opportunity to significantly reduce their carbon emissions.
TasRail is also particularly proud of the service it provides to the Tasmanian mining industry, ensuring that the west coast mines have a reliable and low cost means to export their products from the state. The growth in the volumes through the bulk minerals export facility and the shiploader are testament to the importance of that service to the mining sector. Securing the $40 million in funding for the new shiploader is a major coup for these industries.
One element I want to highlight is that the infrastructure is only as good as the people operating it. I am particularly proud of the program of work that has been undertaken to make TasRail a place where people feel included and respected, where they are happy to come to work every day.
Finally, I thank the shareholding ministers for their support, along with my fellow directors and Steven Dietrich, our CEO. I congratulate Stephen Cantwell on his appointment.
Dr BROAD - Was it a surprise to learn that the funding for the shiploader would be coming out of the Tasmanian Freight Rail Revitalisation Program rather than being additional funding?
Mr FERGUSON - We would always like as much as funding as we can get, Dr Broad, but it is a massive coup for our Government to get any of those revitalisation tranches secured and we are very pleased with that. From a delivery point of view, it sits quite neatly in terms of our infrastructure program to be delivered, and we are very pleased that the Commonwealth has seen fit to bring forward the shiploader funding as well.
Dr BROAD - I do not think it was discussed as being brought forward. When it was announced, it was announced as if it was additional funding.
Mr FERGUSON - I do not know if that is correct, Dr Broad, but it is a commitment that the federal Liberal Government made at the May election that was not matched by federal Labor and it is a very welcome asset for our state.
Dr BROAD - When it comes to the shed, when is that program to be upgraded and how will that be funded?
Ms HOGG - We are currently undertaking a full project review of the new shiploader and the design of it, and that also includes the whole supply chain. We are not calling it a shed. We are calling it a bulk export facility. We are doing an end-to-end study on that right now to make sure we optimise that as well as building the new shiploader. That is what we are working on.
Dr BROAD - What was the cost of the runaway train incident in Devonport that you referred to earlier?
Ms HOGG - At the last hearing, after insurance returns the cost to the company to date is $1.46 million. Basically the first $1 million of the damage to the locomotives has to be covered by a deductable, and that is $1 million.
Dr BROAD - Part of the issue was the automation at the other end. Is the ban on automation still in place?
Ms HOGG - It is still in place at the moment. We are doing a thorough review and we wouldn’t look to reintroducing that until we had a full safety clearance on that. We are working on that as we speak.
Dr BROAD - Has the improvement notice that was put to you by the National Rail Safety Organisation been put in place?
Ms HOGG - Yes, we did a thorough review of all our track safety on the back of that PIN notice and that has now been removed. As a result of that we are putting three additional catchment points in place so if that were ever to occur again it would be caught through the catchment points. I will turn to my operating experts.
Dr BROAD - By catchment point do you mean a run-off?
Ms HOGG - Yes, running off into ballast. Sorry, I was using the wrong term - they are catch points.
Mr DIETRICH - The catch points will deviate the train to a safe location before going back onto the main line.
Dr BROAD - Just that line to Railton, or in other areas as well?
Mr DIETRICH - Three key areas.
Dr BROAD - Where are those other key areas?
Mr DIETRICH - Western Junction and Burnie, and that has been subject to a very detailed risk assessment through a consultant and our own team to identify those other areas.
Ms O'CONNOR - I am interested in understanding more about TasRail's approach to protecting threatened species of flora and fauna. Is there available publicly anywhere a copy of TasRail's weed management plan?
Mr DIETRICH - From a public perspective we have a weed management plan. I would need to revert back to you if it is made public and on our website, but we certainly do have weed management plans within the business.
Ms O'CONNOR - Would you be in a position to make sure the committee is provided with a copy of the weed management plan?
Mr DIETRICH - Absolutely.
Ms O'CONNOR - Thank you. I am also interested to find out about TasRail's sensitive areas list which of course works alongside a weed management plan. Can you confirm that in terms of threatened species on the sensitive areas list there is only one listing and that is for burrowing crayfish?
MR DIETRICH - That would be my confirmation at the point in time. Correct.
Ms O'CONNOR - Is it TasRail's position that there is only one threatened or endangered species that needs consideration in weed management practices?
Mr DIETRICH - No, we have a list of other potential protected species that we want to accommodate and also any pests and weed control management. We have recently engaged and brought into the business an environmental specialist for the first time in TasRail's history. We have used consultants once in the past who specialise and are experts in this area. Our environmental manager is documenting all the key critical areas for endangered species such as burrowing crayfish and protecting the penguins, particularly around our coastal erosion projects on the north and north-west coast, and also identifying areas of toxic weeds.
Ms O'CONNOR - For operators who are contracted by TasRail to undertake weed management operations, at the moment their only guidance on threatened species is through the sensitive areas list which only has one threatened species on it. It is pretty reasonable to come to the view that that is potentially placing threatened species at significant risk. Would you agree?
Mr DIETRICH - I can't answer that at this point. We are identifying where we see the particular sites and where the endangered and the protected species are. We have a lot better visibility than in years gone by and that is a focus for the business as we go forward.
Mr TUCKER - Rebuilding the forestry industry has been a strong position of the Government since coming to power. The Government has made a significant investment in a new log siding at Parattah, in my electorate of Lyons. Can you advise the committee what the objects behind this strategy were and how it will benefit the forestry industry?
Mr FERGUSON - Mr Tucker, I know you are a good friend of the forest industry -
Ms O'CONNOR - Yes, before the courts for land clearing. It is on the pecuniary interests form. You would be a big fan of log clearing and logging.
CHAIR - Order, that is totally irrelevant to what we are talking about now.
Mr FERGUSON - Mr Tucker, I am pleased to advise that the forestry sector continues to be a key area of focus for TasRail. One of the key recommendations of the report that was received into the challenges with transporting southern forest residues to markets was to greatly increase the proportion of whole logs transported by rail to northern export ports as opposed to road transport. Members would recall that the challenges particularly arose under the former Labor-Greens government when it basically helped to shut down the industry and put a lot of people out of work.
Ms O'CONNOR - Would that be the industry that came to government on its knees for help, would it? Then why are you telling fibs at the table?
CHAIR - Order, Ms O'Connor
Mr FERGUSON - The same government that assisted in the closure of the woodchip export facility at Triabunna, which caused mass social harm. This was a massive loss to the industry, thereby stranding the resource from its markets and, some would say, deliberately. Six years later we await the delivery of the great promises made by the purchaser of that site. Scores of businesses went to the wall and forestry towns were devastated and families were broken up.
We have taken advice that transport by rail could not only be more cost effective on a cost per kilometre basis but it would reduce log traffic on the state road network, including the Midland Highway. I am pleased to indicate that while the economic support of the transport of the resource from the Derwent and Huon valleys to the Brighton Rail Hub by road, this was not the case with residue resource from the lower east coast and the southern midlands.
Acting on the report recommendations, the Government responded with TasRail and made a strategic investment in the Parattah Rail Siding which I am pleased to say is now operating with excellent customer support in getting the resource from this important part of the state's forestry sector to Bell Bay. The siding is located south east of Oatlands on TasRail's south line. It was once a very busy log terminal but that has not been operational since 1989. The Parattah Log Siding is strategically located for two reasons; one, it is a practical catchment geographically for logs from the south east, as I mentioned, but also freight trains can stop at Parattah and, in approximate terms, double the number of wagons being hauled north without additional locomotive power. It is a great business outcome. TasRail and industry have been discussing the benefits of reopening the Parattah Log Siding for a number of years but now it is happening. Operations commenced at Parattah in late November. TasRail and its customers are working closely to optimise that operation and grow volumes, which is something we all want to see.
Industry has identified start-up volumes of around 120 000 tonnes per annum. TasRail has executed contracts with the baseload customers. When combined with log volumes from Brighton, this will see around 260 000 to 280 000 tonnes of logs on rail per annum and five different forestry customers.
The Parattah Siding reconstruction was funded through the federal and state Liberal governments' Freight Rail Revitalisation Program. One aim of the program is the construction of sidings to facilitate new rail business. To reduce upfront capital costs, TasRail has also reconditioned and upgrade legacy intermodal container wagons to provide the rolling stock capacity. This capital cost was $1.1 million and was funded internally by TasRail. Through the 2019-20 state Budget, $575 000 of capital was provided by equity injection to TasRail to construct a truck weighbridge and associated infrastructure works at Parattah. This will significantly add to the safety and the efficiency of the supply chain which I know will be welcomed by you, Mr Tucker.
Dr BROAD - We welcome the siding at Parattah and its implementation. The Riley report discussed the rail extension into the Derwent Valley to link up with the Plenty Link Road and discussion of a new rail head at Lawitta or potentially Boyer or the Brighton Hub, yet that is not mentioned on page 29 of your discussion on forestry. Does that mean that TasRail does not support a rail extension into the Derwent Valley?
Mr FERGUSON - I have different advice to you. We have actually acted on the Riley report, which was necessary for the Riley report to be done, because of your party's awful deal with the Greens, Dr Broad.
Dr BROAD - Come on.
Ms O'CONNOR - Point of order, Chair. Mr Ferguson is a minister of the Crown. He is putting falsehoods out here at the table. Is there a set of standards, at all?
CHAIR - It is not a point of order. I cannot put words in the minister's mouth, as you are quite aware. Minister, you will continue.
Mr FERGUSON - Thank you, Chair. I am happy for the Chair and the CEO to further respond. The other advice is that we are taking steps to pick up this industry and to help it grow and do well in the face of what your Labor-Greens government did to the industry.
Ms O'CONNOR - No, it was the Tasmanian Forest Agreement. It was an agreement between the industry and environment movement that both sides asked for.
CHAIR - Order.
Mr FERGUSON - You keep saying that.
Ms O'CONNOR - You keep lying.
CHAIR - Order, Ms O'Connor. Again, for the benefit of Hansard, I ask that disruptions are not made and allow the minister to make his response.
Ms O'CONNOR - No, I am happy to take it.
CHAIR - Order, Ms O'Connor. Thank you, minister.
Mr FERGUSON - You constantly claim to be offended.
Ms O'CONNOR - No, you constantly tell untruths.
Mr FERGUSON - I will ask the Chair and the CEO to further respond to the questions, specifically around the Derwent Valley.
Mr TOMLIN - Thank you, Chair. TasRail provided input into Mr Riley's report, which canvassed a number of options. As the minister and the Chair have pointed out, a number of those initiatives have already been taken by TasRail with the reopening of the Parattah log siding and also growing volumes out of the Brighton terminal. To your specific question, do we support the Derwent Valley?
Dr BROAD - It is completely absent from your discussion on forestry.
Mr TOMLIN - In terms of our commentary and the Annual Report 2018-19, it was focused on the activities which we have underway with our existing customers and the new customers coming on line at Parattah. We were very pleased that Mr Riley's report saw an important role for rail with the forestry industry and ensuring that the forestry industry has safe and low-cost supply trains. Our existing customers are very pleased and satisfied with the services that we provide from our existing terminals at Brighton and Parattah.
We did not make any observations in our annual report around that option because that is not an undertaking on which we are working at the moment. If members of the forestry industry are keen to explore it with TasRail, that is something that we are open to explore with them.
Dr BROAD - So there is no modelling on the cost or the feasibility?
Mr TOMLIN - We provided inputs to Mr Riley's report on the capital costs to reopen the line between Boyer West to Lawitta. We also provided some high-level estimates on rolling stock as well.
Dr BROAD - What were those estimates?
Mr TOMLIN - I have to take that on notice. They were quite substantial sums of money.
Mr DIETRICH - Significant amounts of money.
Dr BROAD - Tens of millions, hundreds of millions?
Mr DIETRICH - Tens of millions.
Dr BROAD - You would take that on notice?
Mr TOMLIN - Absolutely.
Ms O'CONNOR - I want to come back to the threatened species issue, if we may. When is the work updating the sensitive areas list to include threatened and endangered species likely to be complete and available to everyday Tasmanians, contractors.
Mr DIETRICH - We are far more proactive in that space, as I described earlier.
Ms O'CONNOR - Since when?
Mr DIETRICH - Certainly since we have been undertaking a lot of the capital programs because we are very conscious of that. That is forefront of our mind around environments, around the areas we transport and haul through. Burrowing crayfish and penguins have been a key area of focus for us, along with the Tasmanian devils and any of those areas we transit through the west coast. Over the next six to 12 months, we will have a very clear plan and a very documented strategy around our network on where the endangered threatened species are, along with the vegetation side of things as well.
Ms O'CONNOR - Perhaps, minister, you could explain as the minister responsible, why it is that in 2019, with scientists advising us that there is about a million species at risk of extinction, that the state's railway GBE does not have a contemporary sensitive areas list. It does not have a contemporary understanding of threatened and endangered species and in fact it's not able to undertake weed management at the moment in a manner that protects threatened species.
Mr FERGUSON - Nearly everything you said in your question, Ms O'Connor, is your opinion and I won't back you up on it.
Ms O'CONNOR - Then take it apart. The scientists have said a million species are at risk of extinction.
CHAIR - Order. One person speaking at a time.
Mr FERGUSON - The CEO has given strong answers to your reasonable questions. The fact is that TasRail has the usual obligations that any other corporate entity has under environmental legislation, and they are discharging that prudently and appropriately. I don't understand if your question is implying that they have some special extra responsibilities here. The company operates within the law and proactively. As the CEO has indicated, there is a new specialist staff member to support the company in meeting not only its obligations but indeed the positive things it wishes to do as a sustainable operator in Tasmania.
Ms O'CONNOR - It is important to understand this. How are contractors employed by TasRail, or anyone who is working for TasRail, able to understand what areas are actually sensitive from a threatened and endangered species point of view at the moment? We are here in 2019. There has been a lot of talk around the table about how TasRail is participating in the increase in native forest logging exports and a lot of talk about money.
Mr FERGUSON - Yes, it's good, isn't it? We think it's good.
Ms O'CONNOR - No, it's not good for the planet, it's not good for our children, it's not good for the climate, but carry on. There has been a lot of talk about money at the table, but one of basics you would expect a government GBE to do is understand what threatened and endangered species are potentially at risk as a result of spraying operations. That is a failure on the part of the GBE and you as minister.
Mr FERGUSON - We obviously reject that because that is your opinion and your assertion based on that opinion.
Ms O'CONNOR - The facts say there is only one threatened species on the sensitive areas list.
Mr FERGUSON - We have given a commitment to sharing the weed management document.
Ms O'CONNOR - And the sensitive areas list.
Mr FERGUSON - Maybe when you have an opportunity to have a look at that, you might moderate your rather extreme opinions in this regard. TasRail is operating within the law as a good corporate citizen.
Ms O'CONNOR - If you don't know what threatened and endangered species are there, how can you operate in a safe way?
CHAIR - Order, Ms O'Connor.
Mr FERGUSON - That is your assertion based on your opinion.
Ms O'CONNOR - No, it's not. It's on the evidence that has been put to us that people who are contracted by TasRail are not given proper guidance on where species are at risk.
Mr FERGUSON - I conclude my response by saying that when you have had an opportunity to inform yourself further and look at those documents -
Ms O'CONNOR - Could you be any more patronising?
CHAIR - Order. The call will now go to Mrs Rylah.
Mrs RYLAH - The Port of Burnie is the biggest in Tasmania by volume and is critical to our resources industry, particularly the mining sector, which is reliant upon the bulk minerals export facility, also known as the minerals concentrate shed, and the shiploader to export our products to the world. Can you explain to the committee the plans for these TasRail-owned and operated assets infrastructure at the Burnie Port?
Mr FERGUSON - We are very proud of our support for the mining industry. It is very strong support, and it is consistent and loyal support. It doesn't change with different elections sequences. TasRail owns and operates Tasmania's only open access bulk mineral shiploader. This unique and critically important infrastructure is able to directly load a range of different bulk commodities from the port and is seamlessly connected to the rail and road network via the bulk minerals export facility, also known as the shed.
Located within the Burnie Port, TasRail's shiploader has been the export gateway for many of the west coast mines for over 50 years. In 2018-19 TasRail shiploaded 564 000 tonnes of zinc, lead, pyrite and high-grade iron ore for export. I am pleased to say this is a 22 percent increase on the previous end year.
TasRail maintains the shiploader in a fit-for-purpose condition, but planning and consideration for the replacement of the 50-year-old infrastructure has now been underway for some time. Frankly, we need to be looking beyond the horizon of its serviceable life.
On 9 May 2019 the Deputy Prime Minister, Michael McCormack and Tasmanian Liberal Senator Richard Colbeck, along with our Liberal candidate for Braddon, Gavin Pearce, who was subsequently supported at the election by his community, committed $40 million in funding for the new facilities at the Burnie Port. This is being funded through tranche 3 of the Tasmanian Freight Rail Revitalisation Program which I would hope, Dr Broad, having visited and seen it for yourself you might now welcome as a good investment. It would have been good if federal Labor had promised it as well but did not. The investment is notable not only for its importance to industry but unfortunately from its lack of support from the Labor Party at both the state and federal level and I hope that changes soon.
Recognising the importance and urgency of the new shiploader allocating funding from tranche 3 is about prioritising delivery of this critical project. It is anticipated that the new shiploader will take between two and three years to design, construct and commission and TasRail is well underway. We touch base on this and get updates on it almost every time we sit down together. The benefits of the new shiploader to industry will include much higher load rates per hour, the reliability associated with the new machine and contemporary safety and environmental features. The new shiploader will provide certainty -
Ms O'CONNOR - Point of order, Chair. Under the arrangements that were agreed by parliament to establish these committees minister's answers were to be confined to three minutes.
CHAIR - But your questions are supposed to be confined to one minute. So just as I give you latitude in asking questions that go for a lot longer than one minute, it has been convention that latitude is given. I do ask the minister to wind up.
Ms O'CONNOR - On the point of order, Chair, no member here has asked a question of even close to one minute in length at the table today.
CHAIR - Your statement is noted.
Ms O'CONNOR - Well, I'll count them when we get the Hansard.
CHAIR - Minister, I ask you to wind up.
Mr FERGUSON - I will wind up and am happy to explore it further if the committee would like to further explore this exciting investment. The new shiploader will provide certainty to TasRail itself but more importantly it will provide certainty to TasRail's customers such as the mining industry, of which the Liberal Government is its strongest supporter. We want to help attract investment into the new mining projects and we don't want to hear grizzles from the Labor Party. It was the Labor Party that did all those awful deals with the Greens. We're planning for the future.
Ms O'CONNOR - Stop being so juvenile. You're at a GBE table. You're a minister of the Crown. Show some dignity.
CHAIR - Order. Dr Broad has the call.
Dr BROAD - Thank you, I will, if the minister refrains from trolling.
Ms O'CONNOR - Yes, trolling - that's a good word.
Dr BROAD - That's exactly what those sorts of comments are.
Minister, $105 000 was paid to BD James Consulting for industrial relations advice between July 2018 and March 2019. What work was performed under the consultancy and what were the outcomes?
Mr DIETRICH - BD James Consulting was engaged to support us through the EA negotiations with the majority of our workforce. That company has been engaged in previous negotiations through the history of TasRail and had very good history and understanding and a good relationship with the union.
Dr BROAD - I'm not sure if I am pronouncing her name correctly, but
