Dr WOODRUFF – It is a fact that since you’ve been the Aboriginal Affairs Minister and since the Liberals have been in government, there have been no land returns, there has been no improvement in heritage protections, which are appalling for Aboriginal heritage, there are still Aboriginal children languishing in Ashley Youth Detention with no prospect of leaving.
Mr JAENSCH – Why would you say that, with no prospect of leaving?
Dr WOODRUFF – There is no movement for process, for truth‑telling and treaty. No movement at all has happened. Nothing has happened.
Many people in the Aboriginal community feel that your words are hollow and your government’s actions towards Aboriginal people are tokenistic. Nothing could be more apparent than the Macquarie Point Precinct Plan that was tabled yesterday. The original copy, I’d like you to talk about the draft copy of the Aboriginal precinct plan, because it’s changed the Aboriginal culturally informed zone between the draft and the final. What we see now with the final is that the approximate area has been reduced from 9000 square metres to 8000 square metres. The additional approximate area has reduced from 7000 square metres to 5000 square metres. There’s been a loss of 3000 square metres.
There’s also been a loss of a commitment to delivering a Truth and Reconciliation Park. The draft copy made that commitment, the final plan does not make a commitment to delivering a Truth and Reconciliation Park. What do you say about the fact that is a clear, utterly tokenistic way of treating Tasmanian Aboriginal people? You’re not even making a commitment to consult with them on this incredibly important place.
Mr JAENSCH – Are you finished? In place of a question, you’ve given me a whole series of statements of the way that you want this government and our actions to be seen in relation to Aboriginal Affairs.
Dr WOODRUFF – Do you dispute that no land returns have happened? Do you dispute that? Do you dispute that there is no improvements in heritage legal protections? Do you dispute those things?
CHAIR – Order.
Mr JAENSCH – I would love to go line by line through the question that wasn’t really a question there, but the one that I want to pick out –
Dr WOODRUFF – Just go to the question.
CHAIR – Order.
Mr JAENSCH – The one that I want pick out, Dr Woodruff, is that you shouldn’t say that there are young people, Aboriginal or otherwise, languishing in detention with no hope of ever getting out. That’s an irresponsible thing to say. I reject that entirely, that characterisation, of the young people themselves and of the people who work with them and our youth justice system.
Dr WOODRUFF – It’s not a characterisation of them; it’s the awful conditions they’re living in.
CHAIR – Order
Mr JAENSCH – I think it is a disgusting portrayal that you’ve put in place there. I reject it outright. I think you should apologise because I think it’s insensitive as well as inaccurate. We do have overrepresentation of Aboriginal people in our youth justice system and our adult correction system as well. For you to ever say that someone has no chance of leaving, that is deeply irresponsible.
Dr WOODRUFF – Don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t say that.
Mr JAENSCH – You said it and I think you should withdraw it.
CHAIR – Order.
Dr WOODRUFF – I did not say that. Chair, the minister’s putting words in my mouth.
Mr JAENSCH – No I’m not.
Dr WOODRUFF – I said Aboriginal people –
CHAIR – You had a very long‑winded question, allow the minister to answer.
Dr WOODRUFF – I had a long statement and it had one question at the end. It had one question.
CHAIR – Please be silent and listen to the minister’s answer.
Dr WOODRUFF – Well, he’s just –
CHAIR – No, no, no.
Dr WOODRUFF – Excuse me, he’s just asked me to withdraw a comment.
CHAIR – Excuse me, no, I will not tolerate these interruptions. Allow the minister to speak.
Dr WOODRUFF – Can you please clarify, Chair, what I need to do as a member of the committee?
CHAIR – No. I want you to listen in silence to the minister’s answer.
Mr JAENSCH – Thank you Chair. Ms Woodruff, in relation to a couple of the other matters that you have raised. The Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Protection Act, a brand new act, is being drafted. I’ve just said that it’s going to be released in draft in the next month.
This government has already amended the existing legislation to, for example, update the use of terminology in the act so it is not offensive to Aboriginal people in reference to relics. It will also ensure that the penalties that apply for destruction and interference with Aboriginal cultural heritage in Tasmania are benchmarked against an equivalent to those for destruction of any other heritage in Tasmania, so that that disparity has been addressed as well.
We are undertaking substantial reforms in the area of Aboriginal cultural heritage protection. I would like it to have moved faster. We have had interruptions along the way to the business of government generally, on a number of fronts, that have also prevented that from happening. We’ve just had a discussion in response to Mr Willie’s question about the steps that we are taking regarding the pathway to truth‑telling and treaty. We’ll continue to do that work. Whether that’s fast enough for you or not, I’m less concerned than to ensure that we are respectfully seeking and taking the advice of Aboriginal people, and that we’ve given all Aboriginal people and groups the opportunity to participate in that process. We’ll continue to do so as we go.
With regard to the Macquarie Point precinct, that is not a project that we manage. We have provided support and advice to the Macquarie Point development body regarding Aboriginal contacts and information. The management of their consultation process is a matter for them and how that manifests in their precinct plans. I note that they have also engaged with Aboriginal people in the concept designs for the stadium itself. Aboriginal themes have been incorporated into the look and the textures applied in the design of the stadium structure. I’m looking forward to continuing engagement from Aboriginal people with them on the Aboriginal themed and dedicated areas of the broader precinct. We’ll stand by to assist Macquarie Point with that, and to support and enable Aboriginal people to be part of that process.
Dr WOODRUFF – As Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, are you concerned about the fact that the draft Macquarie Point precinct plan had a commitment that said:
MPDC remain committed to delivering a Truth and Reconciliation Park, however, only if this is consistent with the guidance from community. This space is anticipated to be an open-area Aboriginal Culturally Informed Zone
Are you concerned that that statement of commitment to delivering a truth and reconciliation area consistent with the views of the community and a commitment to an additional 3000 square metres have been removed from the final plan?
Mr JAENSCH – I expect that we will see areas there dedicated to themes and presentation that are informed by –
Dr WOODRUFF – Who?
Mr JAENSCH – Aboriginal Tasmanians, and that will continue to be part of the overall precinct delivery.
Dr WOODRUFF – Why wouldn’t the MPDC have a stated commitment to seeking the views of the Aboriginal community on a Truth and Reconciliation Park? Why would they have removed that statement?
Mr JAENSCH – I think you need to ask them those questions. We will stand by to support and inform them to any extent that we can.
Dr WOODRUFF – Minister, the previous precinct plan for Macquarie Point, before a stadium was proposed, committed to a Truth and Reconciliation Park that acknowledged Tasmania’s true history and treatment for Aboriginal people, a place for the whole Tasmanian community to commit to truth‑telling.You’re saying that there will be, what you said earlier, textures in the new stadium that reference Aboriginal cultural heritage. Do you think that’s an appropriate change?
Mr JAENSCH – I think you’re misrepresenting what I said. I think I referred to the designs that have been released for the proposed stadium itself have included input from Aboriginal artists and designers as part of that design. In terms of the overall precinct and what’s included in that – that’s a separate matter – I don’t think one is an exchange for the other.
Dr WOODRUFF – The stadium that’s proposed – the Macquarie Point precinct plan – has an area that’s allocated to an Aboriginal culturally informed zone.
Mr JAENSCH – Correct.
Dr WOODRUFF – Previously, the government had committed to a Truth and Reconciliation Park that would tell the true history of colonisation in Tasmania and now there is a precinct plan, which we’ve just seen, has a tiny area and that does not include a commitment to consulting with Aboriginal people about what’s going to be in that space. Did you provide advice to the Macquarie Point Corporation in the development of that final plan?
Mr JAENSCH – We’ve provided advice when it’s been sought from us on particular matters. The Macquarie Point Development Corporation and its plan for the site is a matter that you should address to them and ministers that have responsibilities for that. As I understand it, the Aboriginal culturally informed zone has that label because what happens there will be informed by Aboriginal people through their consultation and design processes, not the Aboriginal Affairs minister directly.
Dr WOODRUFF – I’m asking you as Aboriginal Affairs Minister – did you have any correspondence with Macquarie Point Development Corporation in the cultural Aboriginal culturally informed zone? Were you aware that it has removed a commitment for consulting with Aboriginal people about what is to be the contents of that zone?
Mr JAENSCH – I am not aware of removal of a commitment to consult. In all of the engagement I’ve had with the Macquarie Point Development Corporation on these matters, they have been acutely conscious of any areas of that planning which is intended to honour and respect Aboriginal people, their culture and their place in their role in our community should be informed by Aboriginal people. I’ve never heard them speak otherwise of that.
Dr WOODRUFF – So, it was to be a Truth and Reconciliation Park.
Mr JAENSCH – That was before there was a stadium.
Dr WOODRUFF – Hold on a minute. There was to be a Truth and Reconciliation Park, but now it looks like a truth and reconciliation plaque. Isn’t that all tokenism? Back to my question, have you had any engagement? Did you provide any advice? Is there any correspondence between you and the Macquarie Point Development Corporation about that space?
Mr JAENSCH – I would be happy to ask my office to check my correspondence so that I can give you a definitive answer on ‘has there been any correspondence’? I think you’ve worked up your park versus plaque line and needed to get that out today. I think that’s a little insensitive.
Dr WOODRUFF – It’s an unfortunate statement of fact.
Mr JAENSCH – I understand that the Mac Point Development Corporation and its precinct plan includes a reference that the corporation is already engaging with the Aboriginal community in this process.
Dr WOODRUFF – Which Aboriginal community? What engagement process? What consultation process is actually happening?
Mr JAENSCH – Again, I have some more information here, but it’s not mine to give. I think you should direct your questions to the Macquarie Point Development Corporation.
Dr WOODRUFF – You are the Aboriginal Affairs minister and you should be responsible for consultation processes with the Aboriginal community or at least know about them.
