Ms O’CONNOR – It was interesting your last comment there, minister, about how important it is that we value and protect our heritage. I want to take you to the issue of the Hobart Cenotaph, and ask if you have read the letter from RSL Tasmania which was sent to all members of the Legislative Council late last week.
Ms OGILVIE – I think I’ve sighted it; I don’t know if I’ve read it in detail, but yes, I think I received it.
Ms O’CONNOR – I recommend that you do, as the minister for Heritage. The letter says in the second paragraph:
As you are aware, both the IAR and the Tasmanian Planning Commission’s report confirm the proposed development would cause significant and irreversible harm to the heritage values, setting and commemorative function of the Hobart Cenotaph. The evidence is clear: the Cenotaph’s visual prominence, contemplative atmosphere and national symbolism would be permanently diminished.
As heritage minister, have you advocated for the protection of the Cenotaph’s values, as you’re part of a government that is going to permanently diminish those values?
Ms OGILVIE – I have been across this issue for a number of years as the project has developed. I will give you a bit of detail that I do have to start with, in relation particularly to heritage on the site, the Goods Shed, the Red Shed lease and royal engineering – I will get to your question – the engineers building in particular. I do think it’s important to put on the record the work that we have done, and then we can discuss your views, which I think are –
Ms O’CONNOR – It’s not my views; it’s the RSL’s views.
Ms OGILVIE – Which I think are going to be slightly different to perhaps some of the information I provide, but we can go there as well.
Ms O’CONNOR – It’s not my view that matters.
Ms OGILVIE – So for those, perhaps, who might be listening in, in relation to heritage, particularly at the Macquarie Point Development Corporation site, the Goods Shed, when nominated for listing in the Tasmanian Heritage Register some years ago – that’s about the time I started to be involved, and I think I was made heritage minister around that time – but it was added to the Tasmanian Heritage Council’s list for assessment in 2023-24.
In late 2023 an assessment was undertaken, and the shed was listed on the Tasmanian Heritage Register on 17 April 2024. This process provided an opportunity to build on shared knowledge and understanding of the history of the shed, how it was originally used, including identifying specific features that are of high historic cultural heritage significance. This helped us to understand the elements of the building and to consider how important they are in its future management. Now, the –
Ms O’CONNOR – Point of order, Chair. This response is not relevant to the question.
CHAIR – Can you perhaps go first to the question of the Cenotaph, because that was the question that the member put to you.
Ms OGILVIE – I can do both. I do think it is helpful –
CHAIR – We can come back to that, but the question was related to the Cenotaph. There may well be questions related to the heritage of the Goods Shed and the Red Shed, et cetera, but the question was related to the heritage of the Cenotaph.
Ms OGILVIE – Could I seek some clarification, though, because heritage and planning law and the Macquarie Point Development Corporation are three different realms of regulation, so what I was endeavouring to do was to set the context for you so you could understand the next piece, but I’m happy to do it in a different –
Ms O’CONNOR – We understand the context.
Ms OGILVIE – Well, does everybody?
Ms O’CONNOR – We’re reasonably well-informed at this table.
Ms OGILVIE – All right, that’s fine. I’m happy to do it, but that’s a pity, because I think it would have been helpful to understand the full –
CHAIR – We can come back to those other matters. The question was specifically related to the heritage of the Cenotaph.
Ms OGILVIE – Why don’t I start with that and then reflect on the broader heritage piece if you’d like.
Ms O’CONNOR – Perhaps.
Ms OGILVIE – So in relation to – sorry –
CHAIR – The Cenotaph.
Ms OGILVIE – Yes, I will just get back to the right piece of paper. The Heritage Council’s view that I have been informed of, in relation to the impact of the proposal on the state heritage-listed Cenotaph, is the information that I will share with you today as minister, which fits within this output group.
The Heritage Council’s representation agreed with the issues raised in the draft and final integrated assessment report, that the multi-purpose stadium would have an impact on the heritage values of the Cenotaph. I think that somewhat answers your question.
In its representation, the Heritage Council recommended that a landscape plan be developed by suitably qualified heritage landscaper for screen planting to minimise the view lines from the Cenotaph to the stadium. This recommendation is reflected in schedule 4 of the draft order. The Heritage Council then met with and consulted with RSL Tasmania to understand its concerns, ahead of formulating their Heritage Council representation.
Suggestions that the Heritage Council should have advocated for the protection of the Cenotaph from the proposed development are inconsistent with the council’s regulatory obligations under Tasmania’s Resource Management and Planning System.
There’s some further information I have here which may be of interest to you, but in relation to Henry Jones building other assets there?
Ms O’CONNOR – I mean, there are other questions, but if we could just sort of stick to the issue of the statement at the moment? The RSL is really clear, and in fact, they’ve reinforced what the final report from the TPC said – that is, that the stadium’s construction and ongoing operation will permanently diminish the values of the Cenotaph.
CHAIR – The heritage values.
Ms O’CONNOR – Well, the heritage values, the spiritual values of the Cenotaph.
So, as minister for heritage, what’s your response to the RSL’s plea to the Legislative Council to reject the stadium order through their lights, on the basis of the permanent diminishment of the heritage values of the Cenotaph?
Ms OGILVIE – As heritage minister, I take the heritage landscape that we have in Tasmania very, very seriously. I have endeavoured to work collaboratively with Macquarie Point Development Corporation, particularly in arts and heritage – but I will say, as the minister responsible for the state Heritage Council: I take their advice. They have looked at this. We’ve had the advice, and I’ve read that into the Hansard – I’m happy to go over that again – but that advice is pretty clear.
We are – look, I understand – I’m a Tasmanian, I’m an old Hobart girl. I understand that change is hard, and that it does impact people, and it does impact heritage issues. I would also say that, in the main, we can overcome some of these things. So, I’m very happy to deal –
Ms O’CONNOR – Not according to the Planning Commission. Not according to the RSL.
Ms OGILVIE – I’m very happy to meet with, talk with the RSL about their concerns, to see what I can do as the arts –
Ms O’CONNOR – Have you not done that already?
Ms OGILVIE – Not directly with the RSL, no. That’s dealt with through the Macquarie Point Development Corporation. I’m very happy to do that and I make that offer.
Ms O’CONNOR – But what – I mean, sure – it’s a tokenistic gesture to meet with them ‑
Ms OGILVIE – No, it’s real. A genuine offer.
Ms O’CONNOR – Sure, but to meet with them when they’ve been really clear that the stadium will permanently diminish the heritage and cultural values of the Cenotaph, and you, as minister, meeting with them at this point, really – I mean, it might tick the box for you, but it’s not going to make any difference.
Ms OGILVIE – No. I’m not into box-ticking; let me put that to one side.
I will say, I just – which is why I was trying to read into the Hansard the work that I had been doing, which may have been helpful. Nonetheless, over the past two years, I’ve worked with the Heritage Council closely on this issue. The Macquarie Point Development Corporation, as well, has been out there. I’ve looked at some of their digs and what they’ve found, and I’ve been across the issue generally.
But the question of whether the stadium progresses or not – I don’t think it’s going to turn on the question of heritage. Nonetheless, I have endeavoured to play my part to be a reasonable and sensible and prudent person when it comes to our heritage, and to work with people for a good result.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay. Well, as the minister, if we move on from the Cenotaph, because you haven’t really responded –
Ms OGILVIE – Yes, I have.
Ms O’CONNOR – The fact that its values would be permanently diminished is –
Ms OGILVIE – That’s not what the Heritage Council said.
Ms O’CONNOR – As heritage minister, you’re overseeing across the forward Estimates a $1.5 million cut to the historic Heritage budget, but that doesn’t really look like a budget that ‑ you know, where a minister is fighting hard for heritage, to be honest.
Ms OGILVIE – Oh. I’ll take that as a comment.
Ms O’CONNOR – But it doesn’t. There’s $1.5 million – well, have you been fighting to make sure that historic heritage in Tasmania is properly funded? Because the budget papers would indicate that if you had been fighting, you’ve failed.
Ms OGILVIE – That’s the grant. You’ve touched on the topic of which I’m passionate about, and that is a number of years ago, and it was actually during Peter Gutwein’s time in the House. We were able to fight for and win a grant round program for Heritage, which we hadn’t seen for about 20 years. Off of the back of that I pulled together a number of initiatives which I think have been really well received in the heritage sector. Including, the inaugural heritage summits which have brought people together from across the state, and a grant round each year for the last – I think we’re into our last year of a four-year grant round of $1.4 million, through which I personally really invested in and endeavoured to help build up the heritage fabric of our state. That grant round is not proceeding. We have had an election based on the fact that we have budgetary constraints. I have asked and will continue to ask for it to be reinstated, but I suspect the chances are small.
CHAIR – Just because we have to do arts as well in this time period.
