Mr BAYLEY - I would like to talk about Aboriginal students. Across many of the other fields of vision of the CoI, Aboriginal children were found to be more vulnerable and as a result often over-represented in the youth justice and out-of-home care sectors. There's an obvious and critical role for the education system to support Aboriginal children, identify issues early and prevent progression into situations where they could be harmed. Can you talk us through Aboriginal Education Services within DECYP and specifically the roles filled by Aboriginal people in frontline engagement with Aboriginal children?
Mr JAENSCH - Thank you. I would ask the secretary to identify who might be best to speak to this at the table.
Mr BULLARD - I can speak to it at a high level.
Mr JAENSCH - But more generally, in relation to matters like Closing the Gap and the experience and statistics regarding Aboriginal people in our public institutions like in education, on a national comparison the good news is there is a very high level of participation particularly on those Closing the Gap measures that relate to engagement in preschool and participation in kindergarten, the year before school commences for Aboriginal children, which is close to 100 per cent I believe, and quite different to a lot of other jurisdictions. This means that our Aboriginal students are getting a better start in Tasmania compared to those in many other jurisdictions.
Mr BAYLEY - Granted that we don't have a lot of time, I'm really interested in the roles, particularly the frontline roles filled by Aboriginal people. I would like to know how many there are across the region and understand a bit more about the terms under which they're employed.
Mr BULLARD - Certainly. Maybe we can provide that on notice in terms of numbers. We have Aboriginal education workers who work to support schools to ensure we have cultural safety and cultural understanding within our settings and also in our Child and Family Learning Centres. What we can do is provide you with those numbers on notice.
Mr JAENSCH - Just to interject, yesterday Dr Woodruff asked some questions which were similar to those you asked me, Mr Bayley, in question time in our parliament earlier in the year, where there was an assertion that Aboriginal Education Services was being cut or defunded to pay for commission of inquiry initiatives. That is not the case. I confirmed that in parliament. It was asserted again yesterday. I didn't have the right of reply then, so I'm just doing so again now.
Mr BAYLEY - Those Aboriginal education workers, what are the terms under which they are employed? Do they have permanent contracts similar to teachers in that they get paid across the holiday period, or are they on annual contracts where their employment finishes at the end of the year and they don't get paid across the holiday period? Could you unpack for me how they are employed and the terms under which they're employed?
Mr JAENSCH - I'm happy for Mr Bullard to respond.
Mr BULLARD - I think the best thing to do, Mr Bayley, would be to provide you with the FTE numbers as requested and then identify the categories of employment that those numbers form. We can take that on notice.
Mr BAYLEY - Can you confirm that they're not employed on a permanent basis as per a teacher, that their employment either ends, or certainly they don't get paid across the holiday period and they have no security when it comes to their employment?
Mr JAENSCH - As I broadly understand it, that would depend on the positions under which they are employed as a TA or a teacher or otherwise, because they have different modes of engagement.
Mr BAYLEY - Aboriginal education workers, I understand, is the specific term -
Mr JAENSCH - Again, if we want to take that on notice to provide you with correct detail, we will.
Mr BULLARD - I would prefer not to commit, Mr Bayley, simply because there is usually a range of education types pertaining to categories of workers. I think it's clearer if we can provide you with a breakdown of FTE and then of employment category.
Mr BAYLEY - Can I just take the opportunity to make a point? As is the case with teacher aides and others, particularly when it comes to Aboriginal education workers and the vulnerability of this community more broadly, if indeed those workers are not on permanent employment contracts that see them paid across the holiday breaks and so forth, it's an incredible indictment on the department that that's not the case.
These should be permanent positions for employees within the department allocated to schools and the level of insecurity and uncertainty that creates for Aboriginal people, already a vulnerable cohort of our community, I think represents a gross injustice. I would really encourage the department, if indeed that is the case - and that will be confirmed on notice by the sounds of it - that steps are taken to ensure that there is security and long-term confidence for employees doing this work and that adequate training is provided for them.
Can you outline what kind of training is given to an Aboriginal education worker in the lead-up to taking a frontline role?
Mr BULLARD - Mr Bayley, we'll need to take that on notice as it's not a line of questioning we were expecting but it is one that we welcome. I will just say in terms of some of those relationships in relation to people who are upgraded as TAs, we have worked through the last couple of industrial agreements to look at how there is opportunity to provide them with more certainty and more hours of work, so we are attuned to that.
Mr BAYLEY - Has anything been landed in that space, so to speak?
Mr BULLARD - Certainly if we look at the TAs, there is a qualification now that a teacher assistant can get which I understand is a Diploma Certificate 1V qualification in Education Support Service. Once you have that qualification you move to the teaching award and you therefore have paid holidays and the same holiday conditions as teachers.
In terms of TAs there is a number of arrangements allowing staff to work more hours, the agreement that was undertaken recently around Christmas leave days being counted as days of leave, and also allowing staff to elect to work two additional weeks, so it does get them close to that 52 weeks, which some staff aspire to.
Interestingly enough, staff asked if they could elect to do that. Some staff who have families and other caring arrangements prefer to have longer holidays that are free. That pertains more generally to our staff on the Tasmanian State Service award. I understand the question you've asked is pertaining particularly to our Aboriginal education workers and we can get that information to you.
CHAIR - The time being 11.30 a.m. we will now break for 10 minutes. When we resume, it will be for scrutinising Youth Justice.
