Dr WOODRUFF – Thank you. Just back to the amount of antibiotics that have been used, the information that the EPA staff member provided previously. There was a lot of numbers and I might have missed it, but I think it was in the order of 700 kilograms of florfenicol have been used in a month. It would be helpful, through you, minister, to find out by month and by the areas that were mentioned before how much florfenicol has been used; but can you confirm that the APVMA (Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Management Authority) emergency permit that I understand Tasmania is operating under, has effectively a cap on it in how much florfenicol can be used, and I understand it is 56 kilotons of salmon can be treated before the cap is reached.
I can’t understand that and I don’t think any other person at this table can. Can the EPA please translate – make a relationship between the amount of kilograms of florfenicol that have already been used and what that means in terms of this? Maybe Dr Raymond Bannister could come to the table. He looks like he’s got a fistful of information to provide or, through you, minister, to the Director of the EPA, can you please provide some.
Ms OGILVIE – Thank you, to me. I would like to just comment. I think Mr Jacobi actually has some information. Let’s go there first and then we will follow the conversation.
Mr JACOBI – I can’t respond to the specific question that Ms Woodruff has asked, but I can confirm from the permit that a maximum, this is the permit, one of the key restraints on the permit maximum of 56 kilotons of salmon can be treated under this permit. I’m advised that the APVMA has based this on it being 75 per cent of the total farmed salmon in Tasmania. This is because the APVMA has data that approximately 75 per cent of the total Tasmanian production is in the south-east biosecurity zone.
Ms OGILVIE – I should just also comment that obviously this is minister Pearce’s portfolio area, but we will always endeavour to give you information we have.
Dr WOODRUFF – So the information, minister, through you to whoever can answer, is what I want to know is: of the florfenicol that’s already been used, how much is left on the emergency permit? How many kilograms of florfenicol are left to use? And it should be simple, like I presume someone’s tracking this, this is an emergency permit, an extraordinary situation. There’s a cap required under federal legislation; what’s left in kilograms of florfenicol, please?
Ms OGILVIE – I’ll ask Mr Jacobi to address that.
Mr JACOBI – Through you, minister. I believe that’s a question for the APVMA.
Dr WOODRUFF – Well, hold on. Do you mean to say Tasmania is not tracking how much is getting dumped in the waters by salmon companies? Surely you’re not saying that?
CHAIR – Dr Woodruff.
Dr WOODRUFF – Can the Director of the EPA, through you, minister, please answer the question?
Ms MURDOCH ‑ Through you, minister. This is a federal permit and they are absolutely responsible for tracking the compliance of that permit. Our role of the EPA is to ensure that there are appropriate environmental monitoring programs in place, which I think I have clearly outlined that we have that. So, it’s not my role to track the compliance of the federally released APVMA permit.
Dr WOODRUFF – Well, how do you know then, through you, minister ‑
CHAIR – Dr Woodruff. That’s two questions.
Dr WOODRUFF – It was only one actually, Chair, and I was very carefully listening to Ms Finlay before ‑ that was one question about how much was left on the APVMA permit.
CHAIR – Dr Woodruff. I have checked and you’ve had your two questions.
Dr WOODRUFF – Well, can we just get the information for Tasmanians about how much florfenicol is left to be dumped in waterways? It’s incredibly important.
CHAIR – Mr George.
Dr WOODRUFF – Can I please return to the Director of the EPA. Dr Bannister provided information about the total amount of florfenicol and other antibiotics that have been used in different regions. Can I get the figures, just to be really clear – since florfenicol was approved for use in Tasmania on 7 November, which was 13 days ago – how much florfenicol has been used in the last period?
Ms MURDOCH – I just need to check something. To be clear, we actually don’t have the final figures because we’re not sure of those treatments finishing or what has been used. In reality, that’s an estimate that was put to us, so I don’t want to mislead you and have the exact figures, because that treatment has not finalised for that second treatment.
Dr WOODRUFF – I’m asking about the information you have to hand of florfenicol that’s been used, because I heard the figure of some 700 kilograms of florfenicol. I would like for the committee and for Tasmania to know the information that the EPA has at hand – how much since it was approved do you have? Bearing in mind, it may not be the final amount, but to date how much has been used?
Ms MURDOCH – I don’t know how much has been applied and used, and I do not want to mislead you. Proposed treatment plans, what has been tabled is in around that. As soon as we understand that and get those final –
Ms OGILVIE – We might be able to assist with that, Mr Jacobi has some information.
Mr JACOBI – Whilst we don’t have the specific figures at the moment, I think it’s important to just spell out that under Marine Operating Standard 30:
A salmonoid producer engaging in the use of antibiotics must ensure that
(a) prior to the use of an antibiotic, the Chief Veterinary Officer is notified of the proposed use and provided with a copy of any medication authority specific to the stock treatment that has been issued; and
(b) all stock receiving medicated feed is recorded to ensure the correct withholding period, if any, is met; and
(c) all feed equipment used to deliver and distribute medicated feed is appropriately treated after use, to manage any risk of residual antibiotic entering any other than treated animals; and
(d) any requirements to undertake residue testing specified in any relevant legislative requirements –
Dr WOODRUFF – Through you, minister, I’m just trying to get the answer. What we heard was about 700 kilograms earlier at the table. I just want to get clarification, is that roughly in the area?
My second question is that roughly 700 kilograms of florfenicol being used at three sites in southern Tasmania, in the last 13 days represents roughly 10 per cent of what Tasmania has used for all antibiotic treatments, according to the figures that we heard, in the last 10 years ‑ 6.7 tonnes and in the last six years, 65,946 kilograms, 5.9 tonnes, 10 per cent has been used in the last 13 days roughly. Norway is at least 10 times the size of Tasmania, and annually it uses 500 kilograms of antibiotics, less than Tasmania has used in the last 13 days. That is horrifying. Why, minister, are salmon companies not being told to destock instead of dump antibiotics into marine waterways and poison the marine environment? Why aren’t the companies destocking and fallowing? That’s the way you deal with disease. That’s the scientific approach. That’s the best practice for global standard.
CHAIR – Dr Woodruff, you’ve asked the question, please let the minister answer.
Ms OGILVIE – Thank you. That was a big speech. Thank you for your contribution. When we know your perspective and understand your genuine –
Dr WOODRUFF – Do not patronise me, minister. I want to hear an answer from the director of the EPA. She’s meant to be independent. Why isn’t that not the advice going. Honestly.
Ms OGILVIE – If I may just finish my comment. I don’t like it when you point at me like that so perhaps you may not want to do that in future. I’m very happy to provide access for all of the staff here to answer questions. It did have a very long preamble in which you obviously put your perspective and we all appreciate and understand that.
Dr WOODRUFF – Lay out the facts for Tasmanians who are desperately trying to find out what’s going on. You’ve closed the rock lobster industry. You’re poisoning the waters.
CHAIR – Dr Woodruff, please let the minister answer your question.
Ms OGILVIE – I was just going to say that everybody at this table cares about our environment and this is the Environment portfolio. Unfortunately, some of the questions you needed to ask, I believe sat with minister Pearce, nonetheless, I am very happy to have open dialogue here, as I’ve said all the way through.
Catherine, I don’t quite know what the end question was, it was more of a statement, but I am very happy for you to attempt an answer.
Ms MURDOCH – As I have outlined before, we regulate inputs to environment, destocking or any of those matters. The use of florfenicol is prescribed by the Australian Government. It is not prescribed by me and I want to be very clear about that because we do not allow the use of florfenicol; that is approved by the Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority (APVMA).
With regard to stocking rates, that is also not what the EPA regulates.
Dr WOODRUFF – Everyone’s pointing at everyone else. This is the most extreme situation. We’ve closed down a fishery. How much more antibodies can he keep dumping before the cap’s reached?
CHAIR – Dr Woodruff, please.
Ms OGILVIE – I understand your energy, but you have to ask the right questions of the ministers who are responsible.
Dr WOODRUFF – Will you talk to Minister Pearce about it?
Ms OGILVIE – I can.
Dr WOODRUFF – Would you?
Ms OGILVIE – Well, would you as well?
Dr WOODRUFF – Why not destock?
CHAIR – Let’s move on, please.
