Protections for people going to the Custodial Inspector
Ms ROSOL – Minister, in last year’s annual report, the Custodial Inspector said:
I regularly hear about matters of concern in custodial centres from people working or housed there, but unfortunately some people who have raised their concerns with my office have also reported that their actions in speaking with my office were sometimes not well received. There are no protections for people who do come forward to report issues to my office, and there should be.
Your government has rejected this call. I’m just wondering why. Is it because you’d rather people didn’t come forward? Or is there another reason?
Ms OGILVIE – No, and I don’t accept the premise of your question, which is that I might have a personal view about people exercising their legal rights, which they’re absolutely entitled to do and I’m fully supportive of that, clearly.
I meet regularly with the Custodial Inspector and I’m very supportive of their work as well. It’s a key part of the process that we have in running the system. I understand also that the Director of Prisons meets regularly with the Custodial Inspector, at least on a quarterly basis. We’re always listening and hopefully doing what we can to have the most contemporary approach that we can have.
I know that there are recommendations from the Custodial Inspector Report. Senior TPS staff recently met to allocate the 120 recommendations from the two recently released reports to various TPS staff members. But I do note, as you have, that not all of the recommendations were supported. Some, of course, will be allocated to the Department of Health for actioning, and from those recommendations and from all of the other reports to date, there have been 545 recommendations made. Of those, 34 recommendations were not supported.
I would actually like to ask the question whether we have a view or any information in relation to the ability of people to make appropriate contact and complaints. Have we had some feedback on that?
Mr WISE – We don’t think that additional protections are necessary for staff and indeed the Dry Cells Report, which the Custodial Inspector issued not too long ago, stemmed from a staff member approaching the Custodial Inspector and making that reference, so I don’t think that there’s any need for it. Staff are welcome to contact the Custodial Inspector and we welcome that as well. We try to act in a transparent manner and our staff are absolutely free to contact the Custodial Inspector.
Ms OGILVIE – Having said that, though, if you have a specific instance or a concern, I’m always open to listening to that.
Ms ROSOL – As a supplementary for that question, I guess my question was also relating to those people who are imprisoned there, whether they have protections, because at this stage they don’t have legal protections if they do raise concerns. I don’t know if you’ve got a comment on that.
Ms OGILVIE – I think my only comment would be, I’m very happy to hear if you have a specific instance or if there’s more we can do. I’m really genuinely interested in making sure that we have the best system we have, so very open to listening.
Custodial Inspector recommendations on gate passes
Ms ROSOL – The Custodial Inspector has also noted that consultants and specialists that they employ are required to obtain a gate pass in advance from the Prison Service. At Ashley Youth Detention Centre that’s not required, so that limits the capacity of the inspector to conduct unannounced inspections. Why is that situation in place? Why hasn’t that been changed? The Custodial Inspector has recommended regulations be made to address this issue. Do you intend to change that?
Ms OGILVIE – Thank you for the question, which is important. I actually don’t have any overview of the Ashley centre, so I don’t know what arrangements –
Ms ROSOL – My question is about the Tasmania Prison Service, where they do have to get a pass in advance.
Ms OGILVIE – I’m just coming to that. I don’t have any purview over what happens in other areas, in relation to what we do, particularly the Risdon site. You would be aware that it houses a range and diversity of prisoners. I imagine that’s part of the reason we have some careful guidelines around passes, but I will ask the department to provide some additional information.
Mr CARNEY – We naturally have a range of requirements in place so that people can’t enter our prison facilities without proper identification, those sort of things. There is no issue and I’ve passed this on to the Custodial Inspector’s team if they were to engage in an unannounced inspection and had an expert with them who we weren’t previously aware of. It only takes a phone call for me to say ‘Can we arrange for this person to be granted access immediately?’ and I would grant it. So it’s not an issue as far as we’re concerned.
Ms ROSOL – Thank you.
Action on Custodial Inspector recommendations
Ms ROSOL – I’d like to come back, minister, to the custodial inspector’s recommendations, because the inspector has made a number of recommendations about legislative amendments in their annual reports, some of which I’ve touched on already. I understand from your responses that you are happy for people’s rights to be protected and upheld, so do you have any intention of progressing legislative change and regulatory changes to protect those rights and formalise them?
Ms OGILVIE – The short answer is, at this time, no, I do not. I haven’t turned my mind to that. I’m very open to making sure that legislation – our response – is fair and best practice. If there’s something specific that you’d like to discuss – you’ve raised one particularly today – I’m very happy to do that, but the answer is no at this time.
Ms ROSOL – I think the custodial inspector’s been quite specific in the recommendations they’ve made. To another question, the custodial inspector notes in their annual report that the process of sending a young person in detention to prison arguably should be a matter that’s determined by a court rather than Ashley Youth Detention Centre and the Tasmania Prison Service.
That’s to do with the transfer of young people between the two facilities. At the moment my understanding is that that’s facilitated between the two without the court being involved in that at all. Is that a reasonable reflection of what’s happening? Do you have a view on it and will you look into that?
Ms OGILVIE – It might be helpful, I think, just to hear exactly what that process is and how it works.
Mr WISE – The commission of inquiry made a similar recommendation, I seem to recall. That is being worked through at the moment. It’s already had an effect, although the recommendation hasn’t been affected, the transfers of young people from Ashley to prison have essentially stopped. In 2023‑24 there were no transfers of young people into prison custody. The notion is being observed and we’ll wait to see how that plays out in terms of legislative amendment down the track.
Ms ROSOL – Thank you.
