Ms O’CONNOR – This comes to that issue? Minister, you hold both the information technology and environment portfolios. There is a proposal which was a government election announcement with a person jailed for 15 months for insider trading, Oliver Curtis, to establish an AI centre in the north of the state. Did you not know about Mr Curtis and his chequered history?
Ms OGILVIE – I’m waiting for your question.
Ms O’CONNOR – You just looked confused about.
Ms OGILVIE – I’m not confused.
Ms O’CONNOR – The Premier’s been chatting with who spent 15 months in gaol on insider trading.
Ms OGILVIE – Is there a question?
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes, are you able to explain how facilitating an AI data centre in the north aligns with your environmental responsibilities, given that AI data centres are known for high energy and high-water use as they require very significant cooling and powering?
Ms OGILVIE – Interestingly, Fermus is a low-water use centre. They have patented an unusual and very interesting technology which immerses the racks in oil, which means it’s lower energy-consumption and lower water-use. I’ve been and visited. It is interesting and implore you to go and have a look. The benefit of data centres and the digital economy for the environment, particularly in Tasmania, is the future is digital, and by using that capability and connectivity we will engage in the global economy.
What does that mean, like in proper language? Well, what that means is that when we invent, develop, do some scientific research, create a musical work, make a film, or into all of these industries, we’re able to sell that IP over the internet and the royalties come back in. We don’t damage the environment. It’s high intellectual work. It’s good work for our people and for our scientists and researchers. We have IMAS, we have UTAS, we have this great amount of incredible science going on so coming down this end, I can see my science folk perking up. That’s why, globally, everybody needs more data centres because it is hungry for information.
AI is coming and content is the king of everything.
Ms O’CONNOR – Can I say, as the Minister for Climate and the Environment, to hear you say –
Ms OGILVIE – Don’t you like data centres? I would have thought you’d be right into them.
Ms O’CONNOR – Interesting.
Ms OGILVIE – No, not right?
Ms O’CONNOR – The examples of data centres that are being established in the United States, which are massive power consumers, which are already driving price rises to the towns around those data centres. The fact that in many parts of the world, they’re powered by fossil fuels, means that they’re not the utopia – and to have you, as minister, come to this table with this Pollyanna view –
Ms OGILVIE – Hah, that’s funny. It is absolutely ridiculous to say that, Cassy. Come and see Firmus. You will love it.
Ms O’CONNOR – But it is. It’s ‘everything’s going to be great.’ You say the answer to the future-
CHAIR – The question?
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes. You say the answer to the future is more data centres, so I am wondering what your threshold is.
Ms OGILVIE – No, I said it’s ‘digital’. The future is digital –
Ms O’CONNOR – I’ll go back and look at the Hansard.
Ms OGILVIE – And to manage the digital future, you need data centres. QED.
Ms O’CONNOR – How many AI data centres does your government expect or intend to see developed in Tasmania?
Ms OGILVIE – That’s a good question. We have a data centre strategy. It is connected to the amount of energy we have, as you’ve correctly pointed out, and also needs to be fired by cable connectivity. Those two things are in balance. The Firmus – which is actually not so much a data centre as an AI factory. It has the same technology as a data centre, but they’re going to do more in AI, which is helpful. But I am looking towards you, Michael, to say if you could perhaps give some more information about that policy.
Ms O’CONNOR – Well, the question is: what’s your threshold? Is there any limit?
Mr MOGRIDGE – I think there’s a piece of work being done via the economic statement articulating there would be an economic diversification and investment strategy. The purpose of that would be to look forward and see what the sorts of businesses and industries are led by – and I suppose with digital innovation, that we do want to turn our minds to in the context of the future – jobs and solutions and economic opportunities that Tasmania may need.
And I would presume as part of that analysis, we’d be turning our minds to the energy required for these sorts of businesses, whether or not it’s green energy and how that provides jobs and regional outcomes for Tasmanians.
Ms OGILVIE – Yes, and connectivity. I can give you a good example.
Ms O’CONNOR – As part of the assessment, data centres themselves are not big employers. That’s the experience from the around the world. You can build them and create a few jobs in the build, but they’re not big employers ongoing.
Ms OGILVIE – No, they’re not. That’s right. Where the jobs are in content creation, and management of data and information, and scientific work, and all of that great stuff we do really well here in Clark-land. And so, our proposal – we’re really tapped into this – is to support that – to support IMAS and the university and our space sector, which is incredible.
And I was just going to give you that example of a company like Geoneon, which is using the data and information in our telecommunications capacity and our radio telescopes to measure climate change from space. I always like to use that example, because it is a prime example of how these two worlds come together so beautifully to make life better for everyone.
Ms O’CONNOR – Can I ask as a last question, because we are running over time. Minister, do you foresee any environmental standards or conditions being set for AI infrastructure in Tasmania? Has any analysis been done by the agency on the environmental impacts of large-scale data centres, including energy demand, water use, and emissions?
Ms OGILVIE – That’s back to this forward planning.
Mr MOGRIDGE – Some of those concepts would probably go to the broad environmental implications of any particular business, which some of that falls outside of this portfolio. But certainly, when we’re turning our minds to ongoing strategies like the diversification strategy, which is influenced by the policies that sit within this portfolio, we’d be willing to turn our mind to how do we create sustainable businesses that are the right sorts of businesses for Tasmania moving forward.
Ms O’CONNOR – [inaudible 5.24.15] our brand, don’t drain our lakes…
CHAIR – Maybe you can follow that up in the Environment profile.
Ms O’CONNOR – I reckon I might, Chair.
