Ms BURNET – Minister, I’m not here to play games –
Mr ABETZ – Good.
Ms BURNET – so I’m ready to have straightforward answers from the three of you.
Mr ABETZ – From straightforward questions, no doubt.
Ms BURNET – No doubt.
Ms BROWN – Mine was too, actually. Mine was very straightforward.
Ms BURNET – Over the last 16 months there’s obviously been a reduction in services in Hobart. How are you getting those services back? I know you’ve said previously in parliament that there’s a driver shortage, there’s a national driver shortage. I don’t want to hear that again. I wonder how you’re trying to get those services back and how you’re working with your federal counterparts in relation to looking at migration issues as well.
Mr ABETZ – There has been a diminution of services because of the driver shortage, as I said in my opening statement. There has been training. Thank you, brief number 30, which will tell me as well that we have had ‑ does that tell me the number of? ‑ I just read it out, so I’ll go back to it. We have had an extra 80 trainees, and 12 are in training as we speak. There has been a recruitment process underway. The CEO undoubtedly has more detailed information that she can rightly share in relation to that.
Metro at no stage took delight in reducing the number of routes that were covered and was very mindful of the fact that they should be restored as quickly as possible, hence the recruitment drive.
Ms COOPER – The temporary service adjustment that was installed was because of the driver shortage. I know we all don’t want to hear it, but that’s actually the reality of it. To try and resolve that, which I think really goes to the core of your question, is the number of actions that the business has taken. That has included the recruitment campaign that I think is pretty obvious. We’ve been very transparent with advertising on buses. We’ve also modified our training program. We’ve worked across industry as well. For example, we’ve worked with the national industry association around what are some of the industrial relations challenges that can try and resolve some of the people shortages issues. Obviously, it’s bigger than a Metro issue, but we certainly actively contribute in that space.
Pleasingly, we have been able to start to cautiously and responsibly restore services when we’ve got absolute confidence in the reliability and certainty of being able to bring it in, because that’s the bit our customers have absolutely advised to us is incredibly important. That’s what drives, quite honestly, patronage.
Ms BURNET – In relation to the issue around visas and migration, have you had any conversations with your federal counterpart, minister?
Mr ABETZ – No, I haven’t.
Ms BURNET – Are you likely to?
Mr ABETZ – I had not thought of that. There are certain visa requirements that apply. I understand – and the CEO or chair will correct me if I’m wrong in this regard, but I understand Metro does have the capacity to attract certain migrants who gain points for being in a regional area. All of Tasmania is a regional area. Unfortunately, there has been some reaction of antisocial behaviour towards some of our drivers who are from an ethnicity other than Anglo-Saxon, but we rely on them and we are most appreciative of them being willing to drive our buses.
If you’ll just bear with me for a moment. I think I did raise it in the parliament that I came up with an idea that might be a good or bad idea. We’ll wait and see what happens. Metro is in discussions with the Department of State Growth, at the licensing department. I stumbled across the fact that to be a Metro driver you need a heavy rigid licence and that requires a driver’s licence for two years, but that’s only required for the articulated buses. Medium would allow you to drive the, can I use the term, ordinary buses, the non-articulated buses. For that you only need a one‑year driver’s licence. And so, I put to Metro the possibility of seeing what can be done to encourage drivers that might just qualify for the medium rather than the heavy licence to be able to drive the non-articulated buses.
You can be assured that myself but, more importantly, the board and the management have been looking to get as many drivers as possible and fill that void. For what it’s worth, that was the ministerial distraction that I threw into the mix as well. Whether it’s going to have legs or not, I don’t know.
Ms COOPER – I can expand on that slightly if you like, just from another area.
CHAIR – Very briefly.
Ms COOPER – One of the other is, obviously, the recruitment of bringing staff in. But the other action that Metro has been focusing on very strongly is retention, and that’s obviously where we’ve had some great progress.
Ms BURNET – Minister, more questions on the zero-emissions bus trial. I am interested to know, given transport is one of the biggest emitters for greenhouse gas emissions – apart from forestry, of course.
Mr ABETZ – That’s wrong.
Ms BURNET – We don’t need to go into that. Regarding transport emissions, what are the plans to make moving the rest of the fleet to zero emissions vehicles while the trial is underway? What’s the overall time span of reducing emissions?
Mr ABETZ – With reducing emissions, I’ll be guided possibly by the CEO, but I think we’ve just got 106 buses, is it?
Ms COOPER – A few more, 118.
Mr ABETZ – There we go ‑ that reduce their carbon and particulate emissions by quite a substantial percentage. That is a substantial improvement, if I might say, but a trial is a trial. The learnings, to use that terrible word, the information we obtain from that trial, will help guide us as to the future.
Ms BURNET – Further to that, what proportion of the bus fleet can be converted to electric or hydrogen buses and what are you going to do with that ageing part of your fleet?
Mr ABETZ – I’ll refer to the chair.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Thank you, minister. To my knowledge and understanding, there is no commonly used method of converting any diesel bus to an electric unit. They’re engineered differently, so the industry typically replaces them at the end of the bus’s service life.
Ms COOPER – If I can just add into that, just to expand slightly, part of the trial is to do a tabletop exercise to see if it is possible to do a conversion. That is one of the requirements of the project charter.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – There you go. I speak from experience, having done it in two jurisdictions previously.
Ms BURNET – Minister, Metro services join up with many other bus services. There are school bus runs, Tassie Link, various others. Has the government and Metro ever considered how to be more effective in utilising and dovetailing these services?
Mr ABETZ – I have mentioned that from time to time, especially with the ferry services. I will allow the CEO or chair to answer the complications that are associated.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Thank you, minister.
Mr ABETZ – I’m not sure you do.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Complications with service integration?
Mr ABETZ – Yes.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Service integration obviously helps customers with their connecting services. In our case, it is a role for the Department of State Growth to think about the network and the connecting services. We certainly would encourage them, because they’re good for patronage and better for customers, but that really is a question that’s best directed to DSG.
Mr ABETZ – I think they’re currently undertaking a study on that.
Ms BURNET – Is that right? Okay, I’ll be interested to see that.
Mr ABETZ – Wait a minute, no they’re not.
Ms BURNET – Suddenly cancelled?
Mr ABETZ – Sorry, the Greater Hobart Network Review.
Ms BURNET – You mentioned ferries. Again, going to that core issue even within Metro with ferries and the Bellerive terminus, my understanding is that there are no connected bus services from Bellerive to places like Rosny, which would make sense to my mind, but what are you doing to address that?
Mr ABETZ – That is all part and parcel of the greater Hobart network, and I, for one, am encouraging for that, if at all possible financially, et cetera, to take place. We are seeing what can be done in that space.
Ms BURNET – Minister, in your member statement of expectations – in 3.3 under other activities, it says, ‘Metro Tasmania has received approval from the members to undertake the following other activities’ and the first one is the provision of ‘passenger services in non-urban areas’. The structure, as with many structures of pricing, is that those who live in areas further from the centre of a city will pay more. The concern that I have is that when people live further away, they may be on lower incomes, and it’s not equitable in that sense just because they’re travelling further on the bus. It’s not necessarily a choice anymore. I’m just wondering how you can alter those fares so that there’s a better fare parity for those commuters?
Mr ABETZ – That’s a good question. I know the half‑price bus fares have been particularly well received in areas where there is a greater bus fee payable. Tassielink have indicated to me that they have seen a welcome response from their clientele in relation to that, but I suppose it’s one of those difficult issues – people on a lower income who drive their own car will, of necessity, spend more money on petrol to get to and from. Often in regional areas you have lower property values, therefore lower mortgage, lower rates et cetera. Trying to combine it all together in cost of living, you can pick out one element and say why is it fair that somebody pays lower rates in Huonville compared to Kingston or whatever –
Ms BURNET – I’m just talking about us bus commuters.
Mr ABETZ – Yes, but I’m sort of saying that when you put it all into the mix, there are always the positives and negatives and there’s no doubt that the further away you live from a city centre and you desire to get to that city centre, it will cost you more, be it by private or public transport. Is that a desirable outcome? No, it’s not, and I dare say all of us would want everything to be free in this world, but it doesn’t operate like that.
Ms BURNET – I suppose ideally, we want a greater uptake of bus transport if possible, and if that were a cheaper and fairer alternative to those living in inner-city suburbs as well as outer suburbs, why should there be that disadvantage, in effect?
Mr ABETZ – In public transport studies – and correct me if I’m wrong, chair – reliability and certainty seem to be a lot more important than a price indicator.
Ms BURNET – That’s got nothing to do with it really, has it?
Mr ABETZ – It does, because what people want is reliability and certainty and price is a factor but it’s not the dominant factor.
Mr BEHRAKIS – Minister, I understand that there’s been a delay in the rollout of the security screens. Are you able to advise what has caused these delays and where the project is at currently?
Mr ABETZ – Metro developed a number of prototypes in varying designs as a result of driver feedback, including a perspex design, a mesh design and a toughened glass full-screen design. Metro Tasmania’s protective partitions, or safety screens, initially undertook a four-month trial of three prototypes in Burnie, Launceston and Hobart. The compilation of feedback from bus operators involved 137 bus operators who are completing feedback forms, with 94 specific pieces of individual feedback. This is an example of Metro management deliberately involving and engaging with their workforce to ensure that the best possible safety device is to be implemented and Metro’s internal working group are meeting and continuing to investigate options. What’s the latest, CEO?
Ms COOPER – The latest is that we are very close to what we think is the finalised prototype. It’s actually a lot more complex than probably sounds from the initial stages, particularly because it’s a screen that’s on a moving heavy vehicle that needs to meet the safety requirements for a vehicle on road, but additionally what we discovered with the initial prototypes we had was that there was unintended consequences of significant reflection or blindspotting by the actual screen on the bus and that obviously is a significant concern.
The prototype that we’ve got at the moment, we think we’re very close to; in fact, we just tried a concave mirror to try to change one of the reflection issues we’re having in the north that proved to still be a problem and we’re now trying a digital mirror. We’re trying to make sure we minimise any of the unintended consequences of that safety risk. There is a very strong desire and a level of urgency we’re trying to resolve, but at the same time we don’t want to do it and then create further problems.
The team have been really active and I’m really proud of the work they’ve done to try to find the right solution. Last week we also had the bus industry conference down here in Hobart. We had their technical expert come down and review our process and review our screen and pleasingly got really positive feedback from him that we’re going to be in a really good space by the process we followed, but also the screen itself to help them draft what some of the new regulations are or the guidance material. I’m not sure how they’re legislatively framing it but we’re well placed in that space. We are incredibly active in this space because we think it’s important, but we also think it’s important we get it right.
Mr ABETZ – If we may quickly interpose, we have an answer on gender.
Ms COOPER – As to the gender breakdown of exit surveys, 73 per cent are male, 22 per cent are female and 5 per cent have not specified, which is not that different, to be honest, with our actual gender split.
Ms BURNET – Minister, in July, there were quite a number of media releases in relation to transport. One of them was around real‑time tracking. I’m just curious to know when that is likely to land in the first instance.
Mr ABETZ – The Lord Mayor took to social media asking exactly that question. I believe a staff member may have responded on my behalf asking her to watch this space. We indicated that it would be December this year. I think that is still on track to occur.
Ms BURNET – In the same month, you announced that you wanted to bring the bus rapid transit live. I think the cost pre‑COVID was around $445 million to deliver such a project. How is that interfacing ‑
Mr ABETZ – Sorry, which project?
Ms BURNET – The bus rapid transit project.
Mr ABETZ – Common ticketing?
Mr ABETZ – No. Bus rapid transit.
Mr ABETZ – Right.
Ms BURNET – I’m just wondering how that would interface with Metro.
Mr ABETZ – That is a question for Estimates with DSG rather than with Metro.
Ms BURNET – The question is around interfacing. We have a public transport system now. How would that interface?
Mr ABETZ – That is a DSG Estimates question, not a question for Metro. Metro are not part and parcel of that.
Ms BURNET – It was just an empty announcement in July?
Mr ABETZ – No, not at all. Just because you’ve asked a question at the wrong forum doesn’t allow you to make that sort of allegation.
Ms BURNET – It is impossible to get that right, minister.
Ms BURNET – I want to go to the transit officers. I’ve caught buses and I’ve been at bus stops where, clearly, it’s a security firm rather than Metro employees. I’m curious to know why it hasn’t been direct employment with Metro. Also, when are transit officers likely to expand to areas other than Hobart?
Mr ABETZ – I’ll let the CEO answer.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – I just might take that as a general question. Transit officers are typically separate from the workforce of the bus and not necessarily the same employer. If you look at other jurisdictions, and excuse me if I talk about the mainland, but typically they are a separate group. You have a police transport command and you have transport officers who cover all modes of transport in nominated areas typically. What we do is we gather information about incidents to provide those who direct those people to the places that are known hotspots.
In terms of the powers that are available to Metro, particularly for a bus operator, it’s often more efficient and more practical for the authorised officer to be a separate person. You do not want to be in a position where you’re expecting the person driving the bus to deal with antisocial behaviour. There are quite clear protocols in place for them to alert the control centre should then should there be a need.
Ms BURNET – And the expansion?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – That’s a question to the minister.
Ms COOPER – Sorry, just to clarify because I know you made a reference to Metro. The transit officers are run by the department, but they’re actually for all of industry. They’re not just for Metro, so they travel on other operators as well. They’re not just Metro transit. That’s where it’s not a Metro initiative. We’re supportive of it; they travel on our services, but they’re not us.
Ms BURNET – Is it being expanded to Launceston?
Mr ABETZ – Not that I’m aware of, but I’ll take that on notice and get the information from the Department of State Growth (DSG).
Ms BURNET – Minister, the disability action plan was mentioned before, which is very good to see, although I haven’t actually seen it. Is it on the website?
Ms COOPER – Yes.
Ms BURNET – Clearly getting on to the buses is a major issue. I know what you’re going to say. You’re going to say this is the responsibility of DSG and councils. It’s all very well to have a disability action plan, which is admirable, but how are people who have physical disabilities going to access buses? In Tasmania we have a much higher proportion than anywhere else of people with disabilities, so how are we really going to address these things?
Mr ABETZ – Metro is responsible for its buses and the service it provides. As I understand it, every bus has a ramp. I don’t know how it all works, but some of the buses can somehow lower themselves to provide easier access, but the state of footpaths and other infrastructure from where people seek to enter the bus is not within the province of Metro.
Ms BURNET – It’s very frustrating, I must say, Chair.
Mr ABETZ – I am sorry, you say it’s frustrating but it’s the truth. It’s the fact. If you want Metro to be responsible for the footpaths around the state, we might include that in its charter, but the government is not so minded.
Ms BURNET – It would be good to have solutions to all these issues that fall under the government’s remit, I suppose.
Mr ABETZ – And local councils.
Ms BURNET – In relation to student access, I wrote to you earlier in the year and you responded in relation to an issue for some students with special needs in in Glenorchy who still had difficulties getting passes. Is there any possibility that students can get onto buses without passes? Will that be considered by the organisation?
Ms COOPER – I’m not sure I am quite following the question. Can I ask you to clarify that?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Is that a policy question for government or is it a practice question for Metro?
Ms BURNET – There was a particular issue with cards being issued.
Ms COOPER – Like a GreenCard?
Ms BURNET – Yes, but a special card. Having identification was an issue for these students, so they couldn’t get a pass provided.
Ms COOPER – Is it to do with them being issued with a student card as a GreenCard from a Metro shop?
Ms BURNET – Yes.
Ms COOPER – So they didn’t have the right ID to go through that.
Ms BURNET – Yes. They’re not going to have ID.
Ms COOPER – That’s a policy issue and Metro has to abide by the rules as stipulated.
Ms BURNET – Minister, is there any way that you can look at those rules to make that a possibility or in fact make student travel –
Ms COOPER – Can I just clarify? Do they have a school card? Do they have school ID?
Ms BURNET – No.
Ms COOPER – I’m just trying to understand the question.
Mr ABETZ – As I understand it, Metro accepts school cards as identification, but –
Ms BURNET – I was about getting the identification. They didn’t have identification in the first place.
Mr ABETZ – some schools don’t have school cards and as a result the students from those particular schools can’t get access to a GreenCard.
Ms COOPER – Right; that is probably a DSG one.
Mr ABETZ – Yes, DSG possibly, and the Education department as well. Was the particular school you were referring to, Ms Burnett, a private school?
Ms BURNET – It is Catholic, Edmund Rice school.
Mr ABETZ – Yes, up Hopkins Street in Moonah? Where was it? Somewhere. Allow me to take that on notice to see what can be done because clearly we want to students to be able to access the public transport system and if there is that gap in the system it needs to be looked at.
Ms BURNET – Thanks, minister.
Mr ABETZ – Let me try to find out what the answer is, whether it is with Metro, DSG or Education, but let’s try to find a solution to it. The CEO has an answer to a previous question.
Ms COOPER – It is about your question on exit surveys by occupation. From female respondents, 8 per cent didn’t specify their occupation, 25 per cent came from the admin staff and 67 per cent came from the operational staff. For male respondents, 5 per cent were not specified, 8 per cent were from the administration group and 88 per cent came from operations.
CHAIR – Just to clarify, Ms Burnet, the question that you are asking on notice I am not sure is an issue for Metro. I am not sure whether –
Ms BURNET – I will write to the minister.
Ms BURNET – Minister, on page 21 of the annual report it appears that only five of the 13 key performance targets were met. How will these be addressed and how will you increase patronage, frequency of service and reliability?
Mr ABETZ – Our key performance targets are targets Metro seeks to achieve. With targets, from time to time there are intervening factors which don’t allow you to achieve that to which you aspire. In relation to the various items, CEO or chair, should you wish to address, I would be pleased if you would do so.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Is there any particular performance indicator we should be talking about, or would you prefer just a broad overview?
Ms BURNET – Just a broad overview is fine, although patronage is one of the things.
Mr ABETZ – Patronage has already been covered and it’s been an experience not only in Tasmania post-COVID. Most have recovered to about 80 per cent.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – As a board we’ve set ambitious targets to stretch management. We want to grow patronage. We think public transport is a good choice for Tasmanians and for mobility, so we always kind of ask for a little bit of stretch in setting patronage targets. We did anticipate that there would be an uptick this year, but regrettably not. If you if you think about the cycle, these targets would have been set in early 2023 when we were still wondering what might happen out of COVID, and there was kind of a more optimistic view of what patronage might return to in public transport. That’s us setting ourselves in a little bit of stretch, which also goes to fare revenue, and in turn will affect cost per service kilometre because it’s your total cost base divided by the number of patrons.
Ms BURNET – They’re related, aren’t they?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – And work effectiveness. In terms of operator efficiency, regrettably, I would say there are two fundamental causes. First, clearly we reduced the number of services we are operating by about 6 per cent, and that necessarily affects that target because we’re delivering less trips than we have that are within our control, because it’s within our control, so that’s in the number.
The other thing that is occurring is because of road works, for instance. Work on the Bridgewater bridge is particularly disrupting the on-time running performance, and now I think it’s the Southern Outlet. Our run times are actually based on contractually committed run times and timetables which were set in 2019. As traffic patterns have changed and traffic intensity increases, our peak performance tends to decline a little bit and that’s the other contributing factor there.
The real-time information we’re expecting based on experience elsewhere will actually address that because it effectively puts control back in the customers’ hands of their time. The way we’ve approached our responsibilities is that we are fitting a unit to buses called a telematics unit, which provides real-time data location on your bus network and that enables you to see and fine tune your network in a way that’s not to date been available to Metro as a tool they can use to optimise run times. In the interests of time, I won’t go into that unless I’m asked another question.
At-fault collisions, regrettably, are something we are monitoring very closely as a board. To give you a sense of it, what typically happens with bus drivers when we train them is they are very vigilant for the first six months or so and then there’s a certain point where confidence comes in so we have seen in our trends where the struck objects cause takes a spike up and correlates with six to 12 to 18 months of service. There’s a supplementary training and awareness campaign that’s been dealt with and we’re also looking at other measures as part of our enterprise agreement negotiations where we can enliven awareness and align our workforce’s focus to the safety objectives we have, which are to minimise struck objects.
Mr ABETZ – If I may, Chair, quickly to Ms Burnet in relation to student travel. I can indicate that Metro staff would use their discretion if a student didn’t have ID, and parents or guardians are encouraged to contact Metro if they require assistance in that regard. I understand there is flexibility and discretion, and Metro are willing to deal with individual cases when and as they arise.
Ms BURNET – In relation to the health and safety of drivers particularly, are drivers consulted about the safety or otherwise of routes to determine if there’s any sort of change to service?
Mr ABETZ – CEO?
Ms COOPER – Yes, certainly. If I can break that into two parts because I think there’s two parts to that. One is as far as the actual network goes, that’s a network determined by the department, so the drivers are not engaged in that process because it’s not done by Metro.
Where we have engaged with, particularly, our health and safety reps are obviously on committees when we’ve had adjustments around, you know, the rock-throwing incidents where we’ve had to have some services suspended. We’ve certainly engaged very strongly with the health and safety reps in that regard. And also when those services go back in on those events.
Ms BURNET – In relation to Gagebrook in particular, was there any tension between health safety reps and advice in relation to that route?
Ms COOPER – There was at one point, yes. There was – I’m going to get my – my wording might not be 100 per cent, but take the principle of there was a provisional improvement notice (PIN) issued by one of our health and safety reps, but it was also withdrawn because the process wasn’t perhaps followed appropriately, as I recall.
