Ms O’CONNOR – Do the numbers go back further than that to pre-COVID?
Ms COOPER – Yes, I’ve got them.
Ms O’CONNOR – Do you have the number immediately pre-COVID, 2018‑19?
Ms COOPER – I have. Physical was 30 and psychological was 10. The year prior to that, 2018 to 2017 is as far back as I’ve got here, was 25 physical and zero psychological.
Ms LOVELL – It is concerning, particularly the number of assaults on drivers, that is increasing despite the campaigns and the other things that are being done. The chair mentioned that you’re seeking advice from an expert looking at what’s happening in other jurisdictions. How recently have you started that work and when are you expecting to have something come from that?
Mr BRAXTON‑SMITH – The board is scheduled to review that report in February, the first meeting next year. We called for it earlier this year.
Ms O’CONNOR – I’m interested in driver numbers, by head count. Is head count how you would measure them, Ms Cooper?
Ms COOPER – Generally, yes. Head count and FTE, we do both.
Mr BRAXTON‑SMITH – Full time equivalent.
Mr ABETZ – I always ask for acronyms to be explained to me. The chair is trained to do that for slow learners like myself.
CHAIR – So, I’m taking a short time to train him.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay. So, driver numbers by head count and FTE from 2018-19 to date year on year, do you have that?
Ms COOPER – Not in front of me, I don’t believe. No.
Ms O’CONNOR – Should I put that on notice?
Ms COOPER – Yes, I think we’ll need to. I will need to go and check that for you. Sorry.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay. Well, just in broad terms, driver numbers percentage decline –
Ms COOPER – Yes?
Ms O’CONNOR – Since 2018-19 in broad terms.
Ms COOPER – I wasn’t there in that date, so, I don’t know that I know – I can’t give an estimate off the top of my head for that.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay, that’s all right. I’ll put that on notice.
CHAIR – Just on that question, it might be helpful to also have in that if there’s been an increase in the services provided or a decrease, because that will impact your numbers.
Ms O’CONNOR – A hundred per cent.
So, now we understand that there’s been a number of scheduled services that are cancelled or services that don’t turn up, how many scheduled school services have been cancelled in the past year? Is there a record of this?
Ms COOPER – Are you happy for me –
Mr ABETZ – Yes, but –
Ms COOPER – Do you want to go?
Mr ABETZ – Schools are priority.
Ms COOPER – Yes. So, school services are prioritised. There are two ways – and I don’t have an exact number for you there – but if I can give you a little bit of context around that. Metro operate predominantly what they call general access, or GA, services. That means we can provide services to a school but they’re not classified as a school service. So, we prioritise, when we’ve had service disruptions or when we’ve had challenges in delivery of service. School services do get prioritised so that we try to minimise any impact on those kids and we do that for any of the school services, but really, it’s the general access services on those routes that we operate.
Ms O’CONNOR – Have any school services been cancelled in the past year?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – If I may, there are no scheduled cancellations.
Ms O’CONNOR – So, no, no –
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – So, the temporary service adjustments –
Ms COOPER – Yes.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – No, no school service was cancelled. I think what Katie is referring to is the fact that from time to time on any given day of operations, a driver might be sick – sick or not available for duties for whatever reason – and that will cause us on those occasions, as Katie is describing, they will seek to prioritise school services rather than just let the impact fall where it lies –
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – And again, generally, what is done is that you look at the services where there are higher frequency routes so customers will have a choice of one before or one after. Now, when real-time information comes along, it will be, customers will have kind of information in their pockets about where the buses are and when the next scheduled service is, but we do that in order to try to minimise customer impact but prioritise school services.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes, of course. Of course. There was a period probably – and this is under your predecessor as minister, minister – but there was a period going back 18 months, two years now, where up to 100 buses were being cancelled from various routes in a week. What’s it looking like now?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – After you.
Ms COOPER – Okay. So, the temporary service adjustment that we commenced, we would – I mean, I think as has been outlined earlier – that was done because we’re either going to have unplanned disruptions or we’re going to have planned, and the service and reliability for customers has been clearly provided as of paramount importance. So, the decision was made to do that temporary reduction. We are taking a very slow and cautious approach and we put a lot of effort into delivering services and, pleasingly, we are delivering over 2300 trips a day. We have very cautiously and very gradually started reintroducing those services and we’ve reintroduced about 15 per cent at this stage.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay and which – I mean, are these – what’s the impact in terms of demographics, because in outer urban fringe areas, where there’s significant disadvantage and a higher reliance potentially on public transport what’s the understanding of the demographic impact? I know Metro doesn’t go out into many that’s covered by private operators –
Ms COOPER – Correct.
Ms O’CONNOR – But I’m interested to know who is being affected or was affected by the cancellations and whether there’s an understanding of those populations and that impact.
Ms COOPER – So, the way we determined what services we were going to adjust was really trying to, it was across all of Hobart. So, it wasn’t targeted to one geographic area. It was effective across the entire network. But we really focused on obviously, as we outlined earlier, you prioritise services. A bus doesn’t just go from point A to point B. It does, you know, point A to point B, then it goes to C. You have to look at the whole journey it goes through. But the services we target were really the high frequency services.
I’m going to make numbers up just for an example here, you’ve an 8.00 a.m. and an 8.15 and 8.30 a.m. You can take away the 8.15 and still run the 8.30, people are impacted, but they’re still going to get to where they want to go in a reasonable timeframe. That was our consideration around how we try to do it.
For services, for example to Opossum Bay, that might only operate every couple of hours, we protected those, so people could actually try to get home. We targeted unfortunately across everybody, but protected the schools and really tried to target the high frequency. Chair, you look like you’d like to say something.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – I was reflecting on your question about the demographics. In general, our demographics are only 30 per cent of our customers are full fare paying customers. You might call them adult journey to work customers, not entirely. Whereas 70 per cent of our customers are either students or those who are receiving some form of concession. They tend to be a little more flexible, in terms of not quite as time sensitive, but they do need what’s known as in the industry as network coverage. We have maintained all routes. We haven’t suspended any routes as such. We simply removed frequency of service. We know it is inconvenient and not ideal, and it’s taking us longer than we wanted to bring them back, but that’s where we are.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thank you for that answer. It would be good to understand the point at which the services were cut and how many were cut? Where we’re at now, if you say 15 per cent are back on?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – On Monday to Friday, there were 177 services that were subject to the temporary service adjustment. That represents about 6 per cent of the total weekday journeys.
We did actually get someone in our team to track, to the best of their ability, what the impact on patronage was. To the best of our knowledge, from the numbers we’ve seen, the variance in patriotism is not attributable to those areas or those routes where services have been reduced. There’s no kind of spike there.
Ms O’CONNOR – We cut 177 services and we’re back from a total – thanks, Chair, for your tolerance – from a total of how many?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – It is 177 out of 2300 per day.
Ms O’CONNOR – That’s just in and around Hobart?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – It’s only confined to Hobart. We’ve not experienced this issue elsewhere. Again, it’s the driver shortage seems to be more acute here where the employment opportunities are more diverse.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes. How many of those services have been restored?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – There are 27 services that have been restored on the weekdays but I think only 26 –
Ms COOPER – I can jump in if you like. Twenty-six of 177 Monday to Thursday and 24 on a Friday. Friday has a slightly different schedule.
Ms O’CONNOR – So Friday has had 24 restored from the cut services. Thank you.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – To date.
CHAIR – While we’re on that. The services themselves, minister, the comments were made that you prioritise school services, noting that accessibility is really directly linked to attendance and thus, educational outcomes. Have you got any figures on how many children have not been able to be picked up because the buses have been full carrying students to school?
Ms COOPER – We do measure overcapacity by drivers. When we have a bus that reaches capacity, we do that to report through to State Growth. I’m not aware of us having any major issues with overcapacity being reported through.
Ms O’CONNOR – I have one on patronage, which is connected. It’s not disability compliance.
Ms LOVELL – That’s okay. Mine is completely separate.
Ms O’CONNOR – Do you have – I’m sure you do – patronage figures going back to 2018‑19 year‑on‑year?
Ms COOPER – We do. Not in front of me, but the business certainly has them. They’re in all the annual reports that we publish every year.
Ms O’CONNOR – Is it okay if I put that on notice, or do you want me to go back and look through the annual reports? What I’m trying to understand here is the shift in patronage over the past five years, in hard numbers.
Mr BRAXTON‑SMITH – If I may, I’m unable to give you the hard numbers. We do know the number that the minister cited in his opening remarks is the number in 2023‑24. In general terms, compared to immediately pre‑COVID, our patronage sits at about 82 per cent of the pre‑COVID level. We will get you the numbers on notice. We do not ask you to look through the annual reports. We’ll get you the precise numbers. That is a feature that’s pretty consistent across public transport in Australia, particularly on the eastern seaboard, in terms of pre‑COVID to post‑COVID. Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, even Auckland, are all sitting somewhere in the 80‑something per cent of their pre‑COVID patronage levels.
Ms O’CONNOR – Do you think it’s possible that people don’t feel safe on buses because the air is not safe on buses? Something’s happening here, isn’t it? People are voting with their feet.
Mr BRAXTON‑SMITH – I would say that this is a global trend.
Ms O’CONNOR – The question stands.
Mr BRAXTON‑SMITH – The analysis that I’ve read indicates that it’s to do with people’s lifestyle choices and the changes in societal behaviour post‑COVID.
Ms O’CONNOR – Well, that’s interesting. I’d be really interested, if you wanted to share that analysis, that there’d be a lifestyle choice of this magnitude within a short space of five years.
Mr BRAXTON‑SMITH – Certainly. We have a report from a company called L.E.K., who’s done a study, and we will certainly share that. To clarify what I mean by lifestyle choices, I mean flexible working – and their use of public transport is shifting as well. If you look in the mainland jurisdictions, what’s happening is more people are travelling at the weekend. If you look at Sydney, now the busiest day on the network is actually Saturday, because people are using it for social and recreational activities, shopping, recreational activity. There’s also a shift in the profile. When you look at a city like Sydney, they have very high‑frequency services during the weekends, so it’s easy and convenient there. I can’t attribute it to anything other than- that’s what I mean by changes in habits.
Student numbers generally, across the board, are slightly lower, because more students are spending more time studying at home. Again, that’s not me – I’m giving you a quick digest of a 15 to 20‑page report, which we’ll share with the committee afterwards.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay, thank you.
Mr ABETZ – Did that report cover people working from home as well?
Mr BRAXTON‑SMITH – Yes. It identifies working from home.
CHAIR – What is the name of that report? Who did that.
Mr BRAXTON‑SMITH – The company is called L.E.K.
Ms COOPER – L.E.K. did it. I know the two authors are Mark Streeting and Natasha Santha. We can get you a copy of it – it’s public. They’ve published it recently.
CHAIR – I’ll keep a list of what we need to write to you with.
Ms O’CONNOR – I am fascinated by these patronage changes, because between 2010 and 2014 Metro patronage went up year‑on‑year. It was under a Labor‑Greens government, of course. In March 2022, there was a free trial of public transport here and patronage increased by 15 per cent. That was with free fares, as I understand it.
Ms COOPER – Are you referring to the five‑week fare‑free period?
Ms O’CONNOR – There was a clear sign, wasn’t there, from passengers who voted with their feet again, that if you make public transport free, as places like Portland, Oregon do, you’ll increase patronage.
Ms COOPER – It’s always a controversial topic, this one.
Ms O’CONNOR – We have Brisbane, which went to 50 cent fares and has seen patronage increase by 11 per cent. Maybe the mix we have here isn’t quite right, given the numbers we heard from the minister before about the south of the state and Launceston.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – I’ll share through the Chair another report from the Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal in New South Wales that did a study of what typically happens when fare‑free is introduced on public transport networks. It has very mixed results, and it’s not necessarily about people just getting out of their cars. It’s been observed in other jurisdictions that results in less ‘active transport’ – in other words, people jump on the bus for a short distance rather than walking an extra kilometre.
As an operator, we will operate and provide services in accordance with government’s policy settings, so it’s not a policy setting, and I’m not advocating any particular position. All I can do is offer you some evidence from analysis that’s been done elsewhere as to the effect of free public transport. It’s not as simple as you might characterise in that, you know, all of a sudden people catch more public transport and congestion reduces. In fact, congestion can sometimes increase.
Ms O’CONNOR – Nothing is as simple as it first seems, but 50 cent fares in Brisbane seem to have made a direct and, quite simply, traceable increase in patronage by around 10 per cent to 11 per cent.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – In the short term, yes. I was at a conference last week on rail, actually, and the Queensland Department of Transport and Main Roads was vigorously promoting the impact the 50 cent fare. It still remains the fact that their patronage is still below pre‑COVID levels. Again, interpreting from that, that it means that people have voted with their feet, I don’t know. It might be a number of different factors, including the impact of roadworks, for instance.
Ultimately, what most commuters trade on is not actually the fare – it’s their time. The frequency and the journey time has been shown in public transport studies worldwide to have much stronger effect than fare measures.
CHAIR – That’s why you drive over the Lakes when the Midland Highway was under construction.
Ms O’CONNOR – You generally drive over because it’s a more beautiful drive.
CHAIR – As an added incentive, because it was a hell of a lot quicker.
Ms O’CONNOR – That’s right. I wanted to challenge something that was said earlier about the demographics. Whether someone is a full fee‑paying customer, or someone is on the lower income, I don’t think because you’re a full fee‑paying customer you’re necessarily more time‑poor than someone who’s not wealthy. It was mentioned earlier that there might be a difference in time valuing.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – I do take the feedback. My apologies for generalising. I was citing some studies that I did when I was in New South Wales, but it’s a generalisation. I appreciate that people who are on concessions have appointments and need to get to them just as much as anyone else.
Ms O’CONNOR – We have jobs, even, and other worthwhile education and training pursuits.
Mr ABETZ – In our statistics, adult concession journeys increased by 4.3 per cent. Full fare adult journeys decreased by 2.5 per cent and student journeys decreased by 7.9 per cent.
Ms O’CONNOR – Is that students across all ages – primary, high, college, universities?
Ms COOPER – We have one classification for students.
Ms O’CONNOR – One classification? A 7 per cent decline in students?
Mr ABETZ – Nearly eight; 7.9.
Ms O’CONNOR – How do you arrest that? I guess it goes back to the question from Ruth, or Bec, before.
Mr ABETZ – Or students studying from home.
Ms COOPER – Attendance at school.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Or students not tapping on.
Ms O’CONNOR – Oh, yes. We’ve probably all been there, though, when we were kids.
CHAIR – Can we move on? Sarah.
Mr ABETZ – In relation to patronage, I’ve been provided with some figures, 2018‑19 and I’ll round these figures off 8,500,000, 2019‑20 ‑
Ms O’CONNOR – Hang on. Eight million, five hundred trips.
Mr BRAXTON‑SMITH – Eight point five million.
Mr ABETZ – First boardings patronage.
Ms O’CONNOR – So 8.5 million first boardings in 2018?
Mr ABETZ – Yes. In 2019‑20, 7.3 million; 2020‑21, 6.8 million; 2021‑22, 6.9 million; 2022‑23, 6.9 million; and 2023‑24, 6.8 million. We can provide the full figures on notice.
Ms O’CONNOR – It has really plateaued at a certain level, hasn’t it?
CHAIR – Lifestyle.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thank you. Is Metro Tasmania required to be a child-safe organisation?
Ms COOPER – There’s classifications. Sorry, am I jumping in?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – No, no.
Ms COOPER – Yes, is a short summary, but we’re not a reportable – I think is the classification that we don’t have to do. There’s two layers as I understand it going on memory from the training I did, albeit a few months ago now. Yes, we do have and our staff have undergone the appropriate training.
Ms O’CONNOR – It’s a statutory framework that’s coming into place. Would Metro drivers as a matter of course have working with vulnerable people registration?
Ms COOPER – Yes, they’re required to.
Ms O’CONNOR – They’re all required to?
Ms COOPER – Yes.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay, thanks. Does Metro have a system to make sure young and potentially vulnerable students who don’t have a parent with them are in view of the driver? How does Metro accommodate for those kids?
Ms COOPER – The driver is driving the bus and that’s where their attention focuses. Obviously, they’re aware of what goes on behind them to a point, but really their safety focus is trying to ensure they’re driving safely. If the children would like to raise anything with the driver, they can take it. They can obviously take the feedback on board, but the driver is really, focusing on driving for the majority of their journey. If the children choose to or would like to sit near the driver, there are seats available for them to do so, but at the same time, they’ve also got the option to sit where they would like. We don’t force seat anybody on the buses.
Ms O’CONNOR – We used to have bus monitors when we were kids. That kept us all in check.
CHAIR – Didn’t help.
Ms O’CONNOR – On our bus. Do Metro drivers receive any specific training or is there any kind of learning module to help deal with students generally, but school age students and particularly the younger kids?
Ms COOPER – Would you like me to?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Mhm.
Ms O’CONNOR – I mean, this could deal with some of the antisocial behaviours as well potentially, but it’s a unique cohort of vulnerabilities that are being transported by Metro every day and thank you for looking after the kids.
Ms COOPER – No, no, that’s all good. We’re very happy to and our drivers do a great job. We provide a range of training for our drivers. Obviously, there’s the technical training of driving, but from a soft skill point of view, this year we’ve rolled out positive workplace behaviour training which 156 of our staff have done. That’s about behaviours, et cetera, for their modelling. There has been 103 of our staff completed their online respect training and we’ve also done some resilience training. There is another bit of training that drivers are going through – I’m trying to think of the term of how I how I put it, but it’s almost it is that sort of positive behaviour training. This includes how to interact or what’s the requirements for, under working with children. We do a module that covers code of conduct, and a few of what I would call compliance training activities, but how to engage with people, in that sense.
Ms O’CONNOR – On one of the Metro buses, if there is, for example, an antisocial incident or a fight on a bus on the way to school, what is the communication between Metro and the school, in order to deal with some of that antisocial behaviour as it happens? Is there a requirement sometimes to hand over footage? How does this work?
Ms COOPER – It’s a very broad question. It probably depends a little on the incident that takes place. Sometimes the drivers, if they are familiar with the children, might address it and have a conversation themselves as far as asking people to stop or, you know, to separate. Sometimes it might require escalation, and it might be that they report it through what we call a bus operator report that the bus operators can complete to report any incidents that take place. We have a process and a workflow which that goes through across the business that might be addressed. It might be that we need to address something with the school, it might be that we need to engage the police, or that we have one of our customer experience team or customer service team respond, if need be. It does depend on the circumstance.
Ms O’CONNOR – Have there been any examples in recent years of an incident on a bus causing an issue for the driver and an accident? To me, that’s the kind of extension of risk, in some ways, that you have such strife on a bus that it affects the driver and –
Ms COOPER – I couldn’t say 100 per cent, because I haven’t read every report that comes through. Nothing comes immediately to my mind, in my tenure.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – You would imagine that it would be raised, because it would be one of those exceptional circumstances.
Ms O’CONNOR – You would think so.
Ms COOPER – Nothing immediately comes to mind.
Ms O’CONNOR – Do Metro drivers have sort of de‑escalation skills or training in that regard?
Ms COOPER – We do. We do de‑escalation and resilience in the workplace training. We did another training program last year. Obviously, for us, these started in the customer experience and how to self‑manage, then also how to roll it out, and we’re in the process of rolling that out across our staff. Yeah, 156 are doing that now?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Since December 2023, de‑escalation training has been delivered to 433 frontline staff. It is kind of a live issue.
Ms O’CONNOR – Bring them up here to the House of Assembly, which on a daily basis is a bit of a rabble. Oh, sorry, minister. Sorry, I forgot you were here.
Mr ABETZ – I’ve been told it’s required in the Legislative Council in recent times. Only in recent times. Since May.
Ms COOPER – If I can move to respond, I have the data you asked for on the breakdown for grant funding, if you’d like that now.
The grant summary as at 30 June 2024 (round figures):
- Ticketing implementation about $1 million.
- Intelligent Transport Systems, which is what we call our IT system, is about $1.2 million.
- HASTUS, our rostering and networking system, is $1.5 million.
- Security screens are circa $2 million.
- Nothing left remaining on the battery electric buses.
- Hydrogen electric buses are sitting at $3.8 million.
- Which gives you the total of $9.7 million.
Ms O’CONNOR – So, while the rest of the country is electrifying their fleets, we’re still engaged in trials here in Tasmania.
CHAIR – We’ve got some hydro buses in the shed somewhere.
Ms O’CONNOR – There are apparently, and apparently there are some buses sitting somewhere that are waiting for hydrogen fuel.
Ms COOPER – That’s right, yes.
Ms O’CONNOR – Which sort of points to the way we do things here, but isn’t it a fact that those buses which have been built to run on hydrogen could also have an electric battery put in them and be used.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – If I can clarify, the three hydrogen buses that we have do have batteries as well. They are what you would call backup power. They, on the manufacturer’s advice, can potentially operate the bus for up to 100 kilometres that would be in ideal motoring conditions, but it is intended as a backup. It is not the manufacturer’s recommendation that they are run regularly on the batteries any more than a backup that you have on your family car, like a run flat tyre, would be a means to continue to drive until such a time simply to get you home and that is the purpose of the batteries.
Ms O’CONNOR – When are we expecting hydrogen fuel to arrive here? From where to run the buses?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – I might start this one if that’s alright, minister, and then Katie might want to fill in some more details as to where we’re currently at. The original agreement for the piloting of the hydrogen buses; it was clearly established that the responsibility for the supply of the hydrogen would be managed by ReCFIT and they have engaged with the CRC Blue Economy. Have I got that right?
Ms COOPER – Blue Economy CRC.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Blue Economy CRC, which has the responsibility for building the hydrogen fuel generating cells, so they are the supplier of the hydrogen.
Our responsibility is to fit one of our depots, a satellite depot in Mornington, with the storage facilities and refuelling facilities. The program for the delivery of that infrastructure is on schedule and I think we’ve just reached practical completion.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – We have, as I understand it, a slight delay in the hydrogen supply, but it is near –
Ms O’CONNOR – Where’s it coming from, do we know?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Where physically?
Ms COOPER – The generation, I’m not sure how much of it’s commercial in confidence, but we’ve a supply agreement just about finalised with Blue Economy who will be generating hydrogen here. I’m not sure I can –
Ms O’CONNOR – On the island?
Ms COOPER – Yes in Hobart.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay.
Ms COOPER – I’m just not sure how public it is to say where.
Ms O’CONNOR – Well, obviously –
Mr ABETZ – We’ll take it on notice and what we can say, we will.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thanks for that, but I’m not quite finished. The question is, we’ve so publicly invested in new hydrogen equipped buses. They’re sitting somewhere waiting for fuel. What is the time frame on having those hydrogen trial buses on the road? Stepping back from that and having a look at what the rest of the country is doing, what is the time frame for a modern electrified or hydrogen run fleet?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Well, you can answer the question –
Ms O’CONNOR – The first one’s easier, probably.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – You can answer the first one and I’ll answer the second one about electric buses and zero-emission transitions.
Ms O’CONNOR – You don’t need to give away any commercial-in-confidence information.
Ms COOPER – No, that’s all right.
Ms O’CONNOR – We’re just looking for time frames here.
Ms COOPER – From Metro’s perspective, we’re really well advanced. As was outlined earlier, we have a refueller commissioned and practical completion. We’ve had the buses arrive, which is great. That’s, they need to be here to start the trial and we’re hopeful it will be in the first quarter of next year. That will depend on when Blue Economy’s CRC equipment is finished commissioning and hydrolysed. It’s being installed as we speak. It’s physically here and it’s got tubes and hoses and all those lovely gadgets with it, but it has not yet been commissioned. We’re waiting to hear – get their advice on when that would be. I am anticipating first quarter of next year, but that will be dependent upon them.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay and where were the hydrogen buses manufactured?
Ms COOPER – They’ve been brought in from China. They have a company called Foton who do hydrogen buses in a number of places.
Ms O’CONNOR – We hear there was local businesses who worked on the 100 electric buses as I understand it. Is that not correct?
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – No. To clarify, the most recent conventional diesel fleet was delivered by a company by the name of BusTech working with Elphinstone Tasmania. The battery or the electric buses are supplied from a supplier in New South Wales called Custom Denning. They’re an Australian manufacturer of electric buses.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – The model we have is what’s known as the Element 2 model, not surprisingly the second-generation model. We are one of the early customers for it along with Canberra and New South Wales. In terms of rollouts, the most ambitious rollout to your previous question was, is in New South Wales, my former jurisdiction. That rollout is scheduled to occur over a long period of time because they’re talking about 8000 buses. They will not get there until well into the 2040s. I know publicly declared positions by elected members when it was first announced were much more ambitious.
Ms O’CONNOR – What a surprise, probably the same here.
Mr BRAXTON-SMITH – Yes, but the reality of it is you need both the buses, but you need the electricity infrastructure. The electricity infrastructure in a depot actually generally consumes a little bit more space, which can be problematic. It’s reliant on having sufficient quantity of bulk power supply in a location nearby. The learning in the industry generally is that when you’re ready to scale up, you need to start talking early to the electricity distributors and the electricity generators. This is so they can make arrangements to go through the design work to install a substation that’s got the capacity and to put the infrastructure into the depot. From experience that we’ve heard elsewhere, the lead times for that typically with an electricity supplier are two years plus. You would be seen to be doing well from the point you kind of decide.
Now, at the moment what we’re doing with the battery electric buses, which is precisely why we brought them in, is it gives us the opportunity to trial them in service here because they have different operating requirements and characteristics. Generally, you need to think a little bit more carefully about how you would manage the rollout of an electric fleet across a geography. Particularly Hobart, if you look at our network, we have one large central depot, which is in Moonah, whereas typically when you’re looking for a rollout of electric, you want smaller, more-distributed depots. We have to think our way through that, but we need to understand their performance characteristics and how they affect us as a business and its operations, because there will come a time when government makes a call where we’re all confident that we’ve got the data about what it means for Tasmania that we will need to have a sensible, structured conversation about the rollout of it, but also the commercial impacts. There will be a different profile for the investment that’s needed upfront in both the buses and the depot infrastructure. It will change the operating cost profile of the buses. We need all of that data for our business because there is no established set of benchmarks either in Australia or globally for the long-run cost of operating an electric fleet.
Ms O’CONNOR – Have there been any preliminary conversations with TasNetworks? Would it be TasNetworks?
CHAIR – For TasNetworks you’d need to have a discussion with –
Ms COOPER – They’re familiar with the trial that we’re doing. Our zero-emission bus team did the initial study before we commenced and I’m pretty sure they were involved at that stage because we needed the data from them to go through that. We’re at the operational trial to determine what is the right methodology and they absolutely will need to be in the tent, so to speak, to go through that.
Ms O’CONNOR – This government has actually been pretty good on ferries. I was certainly talking about them and starting to get the infrastructure.
Mr ABETZ – Take a note of this.
Ms O’CONNOR – You have to give credit where it’s due. There’s been some catalytic moves towards having a bigger ferry network. Is Metro involved in that in any way at all? The original idea would be there was an integrated system and Metro was part of it.
Ms COOPER – We’re not an operator of ferries. We engage with the department in that they tell us what they’re doing, but we’re not managing that.
Mr BRAXTON‑SMITH – To your point about integrated network, we advocate and I think we’ve expressed a view that ferries are our friends because, if they can get customers across the waters quicker to our doorstep, as long as there’s a bus stop there with an accessible bus stop.
Ms O’CONNOR – At each end.
Mr BRAXTON‑SMITH – At each end, and we’re operating services there, then it’s good for public transport in Tasmania.
Ms THOMAS – The wharfs aren’t built yet and no-one knows who owns them yet.
CHAIR – Can I do a bit more stargazing as well?
Ms COOPER – Sorry, Chair, if you’d like I have just been given a note on that further question if it’s appropriate. We’ve had it checked, Cassy, they have actually got it advertised on their website. I can tell you who it is because clearly, it’s not commercial in confidence, but it’s with BOC in Lutana.
Ms O’CONNOR – Which would produce the hydrogen in cooperation with the Blue Economy CRC people.
Ms COOPER – Correct.
Ms O’CONNOR – Great, thank you.
