Mr BAYLEY - Minister, you mentioned the 177 service cancellations in late August and there's been some more since then. It's obviously been a matter of serious public concern and significant public debate. Can you explain where the idea of taking this step originated from? Was it from within Metro, the board, the administration or indeed from your office, minister?
Mr FERGUSON - Thank you, Mr Bayley, for the question. It certainly is a response that the company felt it best to implement, not because anybody wanted to see a service reduction but the service reduction was already occurring and it wasn't occurring in any predictable way. So the company effectively devised the service adjustment in order to provide a greater sense of reliability because it really isn't good enough for people to have to think to check a website the night before to see if their bus is running the next day. It is Metro's initiative to do this. Of course they've discussed it with me, as I've talked about in parliament. I'm happy for Ms Cooper or Mr Gardner to discuss that further with you, Mr Bayley.
Mr GARDNER - I only concur with the minister's comments that this was the response to customer concern about the unpredictability of the reduction of services, so we took a path of making a structured reduction and the customer feedback has been overwhelmingly positive about that. At least they can see where their services are.
Mr BAYLEY - So the idea originated completely from within Metro and conversations with the minister, yes?
Mr GARDNER - As a means of improving customer service. We recognised that we had a problem.
Mr FERGUSON - If I can add as well, Mr Bayley, I'm sure you'd remember me saying it was with a sense of reluctance that I endorsed that action insofar as its ambition was to improve reliability while Metro receives the benefit of the support package and recruit and continue to do its best to retain drivers during a period of low unemployment in Tasmania, which is being experienced by other bus companies around Australia. I talked about that in parliament in relation to Sydney public transport. We're not immune from those same pressures and Metro has my full expectation that they will continue to recruit and retain staff and get that full service back again as soon as possible.
Mr BAYLEY - With that recruitment and retention, is it your sense that it's stabilised now? Do you think there's going to be a need for an expansion of this as a way of addressing some of the worker shortages and challenges that are facing the business?
Mr GARDNER - In the first instance, we've had the support of government through the recent round of funding initiatives and we're now in the process of implementing that, including passing through the first - the pay rise to the bus operators, which goes into their pay this week - and we now have to continue to work on all the things we're doing to get an uplift in our retention. All we can do is keep working every front in this very difficult environment.
Mr BAYLEY - I appreciate that, but at face value, it looks like the $8.1 million is given to try to accommodate and address challenges. It looks at face value like it will make a meaningful difference. Did you ask for that level of funding or another level of funding in advance of that to try to get those initiatives in place earlier? This is a situation that's been on the cards for a year or more, arguably post COVID-19. Were there requests for temporary funding injections such as the $8.1 million made earlier that could have made a meaningful difference a year or so before?
Mr GARDNER - Do you mind if I respond to that?
Mr FERGUSON - Please.
Mr GARDNER - We've been dealing with this issue for a number of years now, in terms of our staff and the management team and working through, with the support of the board, probably 15 to 20 different specific initiatives within the organisation to seek to improve the recruitment and retention. We've restructured our people and safety team. We've been doing training around wellbeing and around people's resilience and ability to deal with what they're dealing with in the workplace and in the public sphere. It's not just asking for money to get something to fix the problem. We've been actively working on fixing this problem, recognising it, across a wide range of fronts. We still have a structural challenge of full employment, in the order of 125 000 transport drivers short nationally. There are lots of attractors for people to work where they're not dealing with the challenges of working with the travelling public every day.
Mr BAYLEY - The Government has responded with money, and that's welcome. At face value that seems to be working. I'm interested in whether that was entertained earlier, minister, an urgent funding injection to try to address some of these challenges?
Mr FERGUSON - I will do my best to answer that, Mr Bayley, because budget considerations are a Cabinet process. Budget submissions, we do not discuss as part of the budget process. Broadly the answer is no. There hasn't been, prior to our most recent discussions where I sat down with Metro executives and the chair to discuss the support package ask, because the Government approached Metro and said, 'Everything that you are doing is great, but it is not adequate, it is not working, and we need to support you more, what do you need to be able to break through'. That led to the proposed range of initiatives which, I believe I can say, we fully funded and fully honoured. We want to make a difference but I am not able to go into budget considerations.
The Government, through the Department of State Growth, has a contract with Metro for the delivery of services. That is a funding agreement and that is the baseline place upon which the Government and the business meet. We need to carefully manage that contract and expect Metro to deliver. While I am quite comfortable talking about the support and the encouragement I provide to the business, I also have to wield the stick and make sure that they deliver and honour their commitments. That is the nature of the relationship I have with these professional people and something that I appreciate. It is both expectation and support.
Mr BAYLEY - The initiative for the urgent funding injection came from you and your office, minister?
Mr FERGUSON - I can answer this briefly. I don't want to say that it was my idea or that it was Metro's idea. We both, in our regular meetings, acknowledged that we needed to do more. Let's arrange a special sit-down, please come to me with a prepared plan of a range of initiatives around safety and workforce recruitment and retention that will address the shortcomings to the greatest extent possible. That's the best way I could answer that.
Mr BAYLEY - Minister, I want to round off the questions about service cancellations. We have heard here that the problems have been ongoing for a year or more, people have been pointing to those challenges. A decision was made in August regarding the temporary suspensions, the cancellations and you have subsequently responded with a funding allocation. I am interested to know, do you accept that, had you come in earlier with funding support for Metro, many of these cancellations could have been avoided? You could have put in some of the initiatives that have subsequently been delivered or are in the process of being delivered. We could have avoided some of these cancellations.
People have been calling for additional funding for Metro for many years, particularly in the post COVID-19 environment. Do you accept that additional funding could have helped this situation, avoided cancellations? Were additional requests made?
Mr FERGUSON - I think it would be a reasonable claim that, if we had provided the funding sooner and Metro had asked for it sooner, it may have led to an improvement. I think that you recognise that none of us own a crystal ball and working with the business on a range of matters - not just after the $8.1 million support package, but prior to that as well. Like so many public transport providers around Australia and in Tasmania, Metro has found this quite a challenging space. There are many reasons for it. It is not just about the pay, it is not just about antisocial behaviour, it is not just about the changes to migration laws, which I think is not spoken about much, but is one of the contributors. Metro has worked hard to respond to those changing circumstances and we keep seeing the unemployment rate going down and down and down, which is a good thing, but it comes at a cost to the recruitment pool.
I am happy to cop that on the chin. Naturally, we keep listening to our business and supporting them as much as we are able to, with the same level of expectation that they need to also deliver on the service contract that they have with the Department of State Growth.
Mr BAYLEY - What does 'copping it on the chin' mean? Does that mean that you were refusing requests or were you -?
Mr FERGUSON - It doesn't mean that because that didn't happen. I have enjoyed working with this company. They are good people, passionate Tasmanians, passionate about public transport, as I am. We have provided extra funding to Metro through a range of initiatives to modernise its fleet, to move into electric bus technology as a trial, and of course, the extra services to Kingston, for example. We have been there for the full journey with this business. Naturally, as circumstances led us to provide additional support, we are happy to do so. We all need to look to Metro, not only to encourage them, but to expect Metro to deliver.
Mr BAYLEY - That begs the question, obviously the challenges still exist. We can expect them to be here into the first half of next year for sure. Will you go into the next budget round with a very open mind and a very open heart to additional funding for Metro so that we can reclaim these 200 cancellations and get them back on the road, pay the workforce accordingly so we can recruit and retain them, and get full service reliability back on track?
Mr FERGUSON - I certainly agree with the last part because that is the Government's and your expectation that we get all of the services fully running properly and running at a full schedule.
Mr BAYLEY - It is certainly the travelling public's expectation.
Mr FERGUSON - That is certainly the expectation. I retain an open mind on initiatives that can support the public transport initiatives that we have, because we have a bold agenda on public transport. It is challenged by the workforce availability, but we do have determination and an ambition and I look forward to working with Metro in the future and considering future initiatives.
Mr BAYLEY - I think it is more challenged by the funding that it is given to implement it.
Mr BAYLEY - One of the challenges - we appreciate the challenges that led to the service cancellations - that constituents are contacting our offices about is the services that are running are now being over-subscribed. They're full buses and as they get closer to the city, they're driving past full bus stops. It's clearly a challenge that Metro needs to respond to, if not reinstating services so that there's more spread then some kind of fare flexibility so that people are encouraged to travel outside of peak times.
Now, you know, we prosecuted free Metro travel early in the parliamentary session. That was voted down by yourselves and the Labor Party. Are you willing to entertain other forms of fare flexibility that can spread the peak-hour period so that people are encouraged to travel outside of peak periods, so we're not going to get the situations where the buses that do run are full and are having to drive past bus stops where people are waiting to get to work or school? This is a challenge that constituents repeatedly articulate to us.
Mr FERGUSON - I hear what you're saying, Mr Bayley. I will invite the chair and CEO to respond further. We have a fare setting policy. There's a fair level of, no pun intended, regulation there by the Transport Commissioner. I don't have the full advice on the table, but it's something that applies not just to Metro but to other public transport providers as well, noting that there are privately owned public transport providers that partner with and are contracted by Government.
Mr BAYLEY - You have a role there, in terms of assisting with the fare envelope that can be prescribed?
Mr FERGUSON - Yes, I do have a role. I have played a role, particularly in the resetting of fares for intercity services, most recently in July this year. That, for most people, has been a runaway success. Most people are paying less for their bus fares in intercity services, country areas, than prior to July.
Mr BAYLEY - Have you an open mind to allowing more flexibility so that can be managed by the business to smooth out those peak periods?
Mr FERGUSON - I'll pass to Katie on that operational question as to helping people move on services that are over-subscribed.
Mr GARDNER - If I may, minister, in relation to scheduling and pricing, Metro is prescribed to us and -
Mr BAYLEY - It's prescribed to you by the commissioner, by the minister?
Mr GARDNER - Under contract we're prescribed that the services that we provide. Pricing is a regulated piece. We work in collaboration with the Department of State Growth around the contractual pieces and we engage around pricing and pricing options. We always will. The agency's always been very open to discussions. In the end they're decisions that need to be made by the regulator.
Mr BAYLEY - Right. Do you think more flexibility in that ticketing space could help with peak periods and we wouldn't see situations where full buses are driving past bus stops with people at them? Would that be a helpful thing?
Mr GARDNER - We will always work very actively, openly and collaboratively with the agency around optimising how we can improve. They listen to us, we provide input, but they have a broad range of considerations they have got to make.
Mr BAYLEY - Ultimately, it's the regulator that makes the call, sets the framework -
Mr GARDNER - Ultimately, it's the regulator. It's got to make a call.
Mr BAYLEY - within which you operator.
Mr GARDNER - The average across all the services is low but we note, it's a bit of a blight of the, not a blight, any public transport system has two peaks. Those diurnal peaks, morning and night. It's a perennial challenge for everyone to optimise that. We will always remain open to conversations about how to do that.
Mr BAYLEY - Minister, you are willing to work with the regulator to try to effect change in that space that may assist?
Mr FERGUSON - Absolutely. That's why we put on the extra services to Kingston to deal with -
Mr BAYLEY - In the fare space?
Mr FERGUSON - In the fare space? We have settled policy in that space. Any incentives that we can provide are always of interest to me, I'll never walk away from that, but we do have regulated process on that. The issue that you've raised, though, is about how to deal with service peaks. I think the average number of passengers per bus in our network is somewhere about 12, 12-and-a-half, passengers per service. I accept that during peak periods on the most heavily subscribed routes, there will be occasions where your scenario has occurred. I don't know there is a newer solution to that other than actually adding more buses to the networks.
Mr BAYLEY - Likewise. Minister, just going back a step to the bus stop conversation, are you happy if I put some questions on notice to you about the number of bus stops in different regions?
Mr FERGUSON - I think I did offer to do that. We have already conducted round one of the bus stop intiative and shelter initiative -
Mr BAYLEY - Thank you. I will put some questions on notice.
Secondly, in relation to the over-subscribed buses driving past people on the bus stops, does Metro have a system in place that is reporting that? Are drivers recording the instances when that happens, where it happens, which routes? Are you then responsive in the scheduling to try to address that?
Ms COOPER - Metro does have a system. Our drivers can report when they've got an overcapacity. We haven't had major reports coming through so I'm interested to hear that you're seeing it as a regular occurrence because our stats aren't showing that. We feed that information back to the department who ultimately control the network.
Mr BAYLEY - Are you able to provide the details of those statistics on notice as well? I appreciate you wouldn't have them here.
Ms COOPER - I don't want to be 100 per cent but I think so.
