Mr BAYLEY - I'm keen to understand budget a little bit more. One of the things that we requested during the debate on the commission of inquiry response and setting up these committees was that the Government provide a high level of transparency around budgets. I think it's important for everybody to know which of the short term actions are budgeted for, where they're budgeted from, how they're going to be paid for and what they cost. Are they coming from the 2023 24 Budget or from the appropriation? Are they being funded from existing funds and so forth?
Are you able to provide a detailed budget for all of the actions that are proposed to be undertaken in the Health space? The budget in terms of the short term ones up until July 2024 and then the projected costs of the other budgets and how they will be funded?
Mr BARNETT - Very good questions on funding and where it's coming from and where it's going to. The Department of Health received total funding of $7.9 million in the 2023 24 year in relation to approved commission of inquiry projects and activities. The 2023 24 Budget included $30 million within the Department of Premier and Cabinet to establish a commission of inquiry response fund. On 30 August 2023, the Department of Health was allocated funding of $2.621 million by the Department of Premier and Cabinet for two items approved to be funded from the commission of inquiry response fund as follows: first, the child safety governance of new child safety arrangements, $2.3 million; second, the historic sexual assault and family violence record digitisation of $321 000. This funding's been transferred from the Department of Premier and Cabinet to the Department of Health as part of the interagency transfer facilitated by Treasury. On 21 September 2023, Department of Health was allocated funding of $1.965 million by DPAC for six items approved to be funded by the commission of inquiry response fund. Those six items are the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services $538 261; Statewide Mental Health Services $677 009; community sector organisations $100 000; at-risk groups $282 732; Alcohol and Drug Service north $142 697; and family violence counselling support service $214 047. I could add to that but hopefully that is a summary. That funding, I am advised, is being transferred from DPAC to Health as part of the interagency transfer facilitated by Treasury.
The Department of Health was allocated a further $3.3 million in the Supplementary Appropriation Bill 2023-24 which received royal assent on 2 November. This included funding for human resources information systems of $2 million; child safety and wellbeing panel and service $891 000; and child safety and wellbeing framework $450 000. The Department of Health received its Treasury expenditure control authority in respect of this additional funding on 23 November this year.
In conclusion, in relation to ongoing funding for commission of inquiry projects and activities, which was the last part of your question, options to integrate the commission of inquiry recommendations are being explored and will be incorporated as part of the 2024-25 budget development process.
Mr BAYLEY - That's great. Thank you very much, that's really helpful. It is hard from seeing those numbers, for example, to understand recommendation 12.21 we just talked about before where you're recruiting some mental health professionals for the Ashley Youth Detention Centre. How are they funded? Are they coming out of any of these funds and so forth? I guess my question is to you, minister, and perhaps you can take this on notice, but for each of the recommendations that pertain to Health I'd be very interested in understanding the budget implications of them. Are they funded? From which budget are they funded, the original budget or the supplementary budget? Are they going to be funded out of the existing departmental funds? Then with the actions that go out into the future, I'd like an estimate of projected costs so that we can look for them in future budgets and track their progress going forward.
Mr BARNETT - I will pass to our Deputy Secretary who is across that question.
Mr WEBSTER- In relation to the forensic mental health recommendation, that was a recommendation of the CAMHS review, which was undertaken by Professor Brett McDermott three to four years ago now. The Government allocated $40 million in the state Budget to the CAMHS stage 1 and stage 2 reforms, which included forensic mental health, so the changes we're now making were already funded prior to the commission of inquiry and we're building on those as we go.
In relation to the forward budget, obviously appropriation for 2024-25 will be part of next year's state Budget so we will be making submissions to the budget process as we work through the needs and the costings for each of these steps over the next few years. They may in fact be over a number of budgets given that we're aligning with future developments - such as once there is a replacement for Ashley south, there will be four facilities, and we will align our budget ask to that actually starting, so we'll go through a budget process.
Mr BAYLEY - With respect to the mental health professionals you're talking about that's really useful for me to know that that's from a bucket of funding that has come in years past and was invested. I guess this is the kind of information I'm wondering whether you're willing to take on notice, minister, and give us some clarity on each of the recommendations and whether they have funding implications. Some of them may well not and if they do, from where they are going to be funded? Are you able to take that on notice and give us some clarity on that?
Mr BARNETT - It's a question that we'd like to answer. I understand where you're coming from and providing clarity and the way forward as to which way we go. Obviously there are budget processes, but that question is best answered by the secretary to outline the process going forward.
Ms MORGAN-WICKS - Some of the items we've already had well established, so for example, Mr Bayley, we've had our One Health culture initiative and program well under way and I know exactly how much they cost. We have an estimated cost of $2.5 million for the rollout of One Health and I'd like to see that funded over future years. We've received an allocation, though, from the commission of inquiry in relation to 2023-24 and I'll be putting in a budget submission in relation to One Health, using it as an example in the January period.
Some of the other recommendations to provide in the final response we're still working through in terms of models of care - the exact staffing models, for example, that might be required, whether it's one psychiatrist versus three psychologists versus five admin, et cetera. We will work through that and make sure we have a detailed budget submission, which is due in January 2024. Obviously it's up to a minister whether to take questions on notice but we are still working through the full budget implications and particularly where there are recommendations that are not due until 2026 or 2029 we'll do our best to make sure that Health is appropriately funded and roll out things as quickly as we can to respond to the recommendations.
Mr BAYLEY - I can completely understand how you are still doing work on them but I'll put the question again. Can you, will you - certainly for the actions that are due to be completed in July 2024 - provide us with some clarity on how they are funded, from where they are funded and whether we can expect anything in the coming Budget?
Mr BARNETT - To be clear, in terms of progress and work from the Department of Health through to 30 June 2024, the funding is there. That's my advice, so I am -
Mr BAYLEY - Are you able to demonstrate that in writing and take it on notice?
Mr BARNETT - I think I have outlined quite clearly in my opening remarks in response to your first question where those funds are and where they're going to, which includes funding through to 30 June next year.
Mr BAYLEY - Does that address every recommendation to be delivered by 2024?
Mr BARNETT - Yes, for the work we're doing and the Department of Health is doing through to 30 June, that's the funding we've got. We believe that's adequate to do the job.
Ms MORGAN-WICKS - In addition, from our current appropriation, which is our 2023 24 Budget, we are utilising funds, for example, in our training and education space to conduct the training for 15 500 people. We didn't receive a specific allocation which is tagged and most recent through the COI; we utilised existing resources within our Health budget.
Mr BAYLEY - In that instance, does that mean that something gets missed off that that training budget would have been spent on that no longer does? You can see what I'm getting at. There's concern and we get contact from people concerned about a diversion of existing budgets to address commission of inquiry recommendations, acknowledging there's a significant investment in some items.
Mr BARNETT - The answer is that we are very focused. This is a priority. We're using some of those existing funds but I know my Deputy Secretary would like to make a contribution so I will pass to him.
Mr WEBSTER - To add one more cost to the recent list, there is funding for the task force to monitor what's happening and that's a transfer from the Department of Premier and Cabinet. That was confirmed only last week so it wasn't in the minister's brief, and that was just over $400 000 for that.
Mr BAYLEY - This is all very good information and I appreciate it. It would just be useful to have it stepped out recommendation by recommendation so that there can be clarity and understanding on where this money is coming from.
Mr BARNETT - We are totally committed through to 30 June next year in terms of the funding support. My department is working with other departments and other agencies. My Secretary, for example, is on the interagency child safety committee. I'm obviously a member of the Cabinet subcommittee which is really important in terms of these matters. There's a lot of work across Government as well as within the Department of Health and we're very committed through to 30 June and then going forward to implement all those recommendations. We have to go through a budget process, as I think the Secretary has outlined. January is obviously a very important period in terms of drafting that Budget. We'll have more to say about that in the new year. As Minister for Health, I'm a strong advocate for the sector and for my department.
Mr BAYLEY - I want to spend more time on budget. I hear you saying that you've got all the funding in place until 30 June. You are confident. You have rattled off a number of initiatives, but you're resistant to giving it to us in a recommendation by recommendation context. I'm perplexed by that and alarmed. You say you have confidence, and that's great, but the exercise we're in at the moment is all about giving the public confidence, victims/survivors, other parliamentarians confidence.
I'm alarmed that you're not willing to take on notice - I'm not expecting it here and now - to have a recommendation by recommendation articulation of the funding commitments, where they are coming from. We understand if there is already work under way and it's already funded and it's internal. That just needs to be articulated. That'll help give people more clarity and more confidence that this is being delivered with new money and we're not going to see elements of the Health budget cannibalised to deliver commission of inquiry recommendations.
Minister, you frown but we are already getting feedback to that effect. This has happened, not necessarily in the Health budget but in other portfolio areas. We note that it has been observed in the past and it is not exactly surprising.
This is about building confidence for the public in your response. I'm asking again as to whether you're willing to take on notice a question about a recommendation by recommendation, at least up until 30 June 2024, and just tell us how much money there is, where it is coming from. That will be satisfactory.
Mr BARNETT - I appreciate the question, I think it's in two parts. One, we are on a unity ticket in terms of building confidence and rebuilding trust. That's why the Government has responded so comprehensively in our report last week, which I had the honour of delivering on behalf of the Government. It was a very proud moment, because it's the most important piece of work, in my view, of our Government to date and going forward. I said that last Friday, I mean it. I am sitting here as Minister for Health with total commitment to implement the recommendations. In terms of the Budget, I've outlined - I think pretty comprehensively - the various parts of the Health budget that directly relate to the commission of inquiry recommendations. I cannot speculate with respect to the budget bids in the first quarter.
Mr BAYLEY - Minister, my question was around your confidence up until 30 June 2024. You told me that all the funding is in place. I'm not asking for speculation, I'm asking for, on notice, an articulation of that budget confidence that you have, to share that with us as the committee and the public as a result.
Mr BARNETT - I am making the point that I won't be speculating on future budgets because we have to work that through with Treasury.
Mr BAYLEY - Understood.
Mr BARNETT - I appreciate your acknowledgement of it. I do know that the deputy secretary can have more to say and could add to my answer about what is happening between now and 30 June 2024. I will pass to the deputy secretary.
Mr BAYLEY - But that's a no on taking it on notice?
CHAIR - Order.
Mr BARNETT - No, well, let's try to answer the question.
Mr WEBSTER - The difficulty we have is we haven't split it up by recommendation because if you read the recommendations, several of them will come together to form one action, if you know what I mean. For instance, if we take the accompanying person observer policy, we can take that recommendation and say the cost of that is zero. But that has to then go into our training budget, because we need to train people into it. Several other recommendations will be funded, such as the Child Safety Service, so it's misleading to say we're spending zero on it, because we are spending it under other recommendations.
Similarly, Child Safety Service, that cuts across about 10 of our recommendations. It's almost like a pool of money that goes with an action, rather than with a recommendation. That's why the minister went through a series of actions, rather than recommendations, because they don't exactly match - one recommendation equals this dollars - it's really this group equals this dollars.
Mr BAYLEY - I am sure there is a way of articulating it, with respect, Mr Webster. I am asking for each recommendation, whether it's lumped in with another one, whether there are five that are funded through a pool, just an articulation of how that is funded. You're telling us it's going to be delivered, and that's great, we accept that at face value. We're trying to understand where the funding is being drawn from, whether it's from the original budget, whether it's from the supplementary budget, whether it's from a 2020 budget, just so that there is clarity on how this is going to be taken forward.
Ms MORGAN-WICKS - For example, recommendation 15.5 relates to directing that accountability is inserted or child safety obligations are inserted into employee statements of duties, which I have done, and hasn't required a budget, because I have issued a direction as secretary.
Mr BAYLEY - And presumably you could articulate that.
Ms MORGAN-WICKS - I may speak a little bit as an ex-deputy secretary of Treasury, in terms of the articulation of budget estimates, which occur within the budget papers on an annual basis within additional request of funding. If I require additional funds to complete a recommendation, I can make that request through my minister to the Treasurer. If it is accepted, it's then articulated in a supplementary appropriation bill, for example, and fully examined by parliament. In terms of transparency, we have outlined each individual monetary allocation that my department has received. I've also explained that we have been implementing several of these recommendations for several years now, and they're already embedded into appropriated people budgets. For example, I already have the staff that are involved in my centralised complaints management unit and that's appearing in the current budget papers. At the very best internally, and I don't have this, would be trying to articulate an estimate per each recommendation, but as Mr Webster has explained, if we went through and ticked off this recommendation, 5, 6, 7, 8 are being delivered by the Child Safety Directorate, which is fully funded as explained by the minister in reading out the allocation of funding for that directorate.
