Mr BAYLEY - Thank you, Mr Chair. We had an update this morning from the Premier in relation to the total number of children in out-of-home care. I'm interested in exploring it in a little more detail. You may need to take this on notice as well and I'm happy for you to do this.
Can you provide us with the number of children in out-of-home care for each type of child protection order or care arrangement? For example, how many are in assessment orders, voluntary care agreements, 12 month care, interim care and protection orders, care and protection orders applying to 18-year-olds? Is that something you're able to give us on notice?
Mr JAENSCH - Happy to provide that on notice.
Mr BAYLEY - Thank you. To continue this, can you explain how these types of arrangements relate to the required time frames for visits by a child safety officer? For those different arrangements, what are the required visit time frames for child safety officers? Does every child under the same type of child protection order have the same requirements, or are there other considerations in determining the frequency of visits by child safety officers? Is that clear? Are visits allocated per order type or tailored to the needs of the child?
Mr JAENSCH - I'm happy to provide a lay overview for you. Mr Bullard might see if there's someone else who can offer a little bit more detail.
Mr BAYLEY - Accurate lay overview would be helpful.
Mr JAENSCH - A more technical or informed view. The range of different orders that are granted by courts also reflect the circumstances of those cases. There might be some where a short term order is sought while there is some intensive work being done by child safety staff to ascertain the safety of a child, or to work with the family and other providers to make a home or a placement safe, or to deal with a placement that's broken down.
There are other forms of orders that are longer term, more stable, where you might have somebody who's reaching the end of their time in out-of-home care, they're 18 or they're 17, and they've had a stable placement with a foster family that loves them and will be part of their life forever. Their challenges are like those of any young person transitioning to independent living and finding their way in the world. There's a different set of supports that might come in.
There's a range of different circumstances and everything in between. Each of those will have different types of people from our Child Safety Service and out-of-home care supports involved in their lives, and other service providers as well.
As a framing for your question about visits by Child Safety staff, it will depend on the case and the type of order that's applied for and granted for those circumstances. Some will have very intensive involvement. Others will require very little in terms of dealing with a safety issue but perhaps a lot to do with helping a young person sign up with the NDIS, or ensuring they have their accommodation and their other supports around them as they move out of a foster care placement.
Is there anything else you can add, Mr Bullard?
Mr BULLARD - I think you have summarised it perfectly, minister. So, expected visit or a benchmark visit but then individualised for each child depending on where they are in their stability.
Mr BAYLEY - In terms of the visits, are you able to provide us a breakdown of the number of children that require weekly visits, the number that require visits every six weeks, and the number subject to any other time frame?
Mr JAENSCH - There might be a difference between what might be required for the individual circumstances and a care plan for a young person and their needs, and what some rule of thumb might be in terms of good practice in a business as usual side of things. I don't know if Mr Bullard can comment on any statutory minimum requirement.
Mr BULLARD - I think it would be care type by visit, more than individuals by visit.
I note, in terms of why you have visits to young people, that it is so you can build those relationships and ensure that those young people are known. But that's only one way in our agency that we're putting a focus on that. I've already talked about the guardianship data feed that comes through to me around those young people, some data around how they're faring, also, the care teams that are absolutely crucial, as is the role of schools.
We now have, across 12 000 people in our agency, multiple ways that we are intersecting with a majority of children and young people who are under my guardianship or custody. What we are now trying to do is see the best way we can draw that information together, not for its own sake but to allow us to fully understand the needs and aspirations of those young people and put in place the supports they need. That is a work in progress. We feel that we've been given a unique opportunity as a new agency and we're looking at how many ways we can maximise that.
Mr BAYLEY - In parliament, minister, you provided us with some general information about the number of children, it was then around 39 per cent of these child safety officer visits being conducted in the required time frames. For 2022-23, can you provide the total number of visits that were conducted and not conducted for children requiring weekly visits?
Mr BULLARD - Mr Bayley, I wonder in terms of framing that question, if you're asking about care types that have expected visit times. Is the question how many met those expected times rather than a weekly or -
Mr BAYLEY - That's right. At the same time, for those children requiring visits every four weeks and again those requiring visits every six weeks, so the weekly, the four weekly and the six weekly.
Mr BULLARD - Once we have identified the care types, the visit benchmark, then we can report against that, if that's what you're asking.
Mr BAYLEY - Yes, and it's numbers, not percentages, that we are after, please. I'll put that in writing.
Mr BAYLEY - I would like to ask a few questions about Aboriginal children in out-of-home care. As you are aware and the commission's report detailed, Aboriginal children have a particular vulnerability to being put into out-of-home care, or needing out-of-home care, and they have a disproportionate representation in out-of-home care.
A few questions on statistics and then going to the recommendations. How many children in out-of-home care as at today are recorded as being Aboriginal? Do they all have cultural support plans in place?
Mr JAENSCH - I'd be happy to take that on notice. In terms of these numbers questions, I want to make sure that we can be absolutely clear about that. I'm happy to take those.
Mr BAYLEY - Thank you. Do you have a category where Aboriginality is suspected or claimed but not confirmed? Is there a category of child that may fall into that place, and how do you respond to that?
Mr JAENSCH - I don't think that there's a category of child. I think there is some uncertainty in the data because there may not have been a requirement by anyone to have recorded Aboriginal identity of a young person each time. I believe there are some undertakings to remedy that as we work towards full implementation of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander child placement principles so that that is known and that information is sought, although it should not be compelled. It's volunteered as information, as I understand it.
Mr BULLARD - Yes, that's right.
Mr JAENSCH - The same for carers as well.
Mr BULLARD - It has been a focus of the department this year to ensure that we have up to-date information about children who are Aboriginal and we have done a full sweep of children in out of-home care to verify that. As the minister said, it's not compelling people but, certainly, where birth parents want to identify as Aboriginal, that is noted in the child's plan.
In terms of the cultural support plan, there isn't something called a cultural support plan. In the care plans, in each of the wellbeing domains, is an element that particularly goes to Aboriginality.
Mr BAYLEY - Recommendation 9.4 pertains to expert and active leadership and includes departmental restructure, including the creation of, 'the role of executive director for Aboriginal children and young people, supported by an office of Aboriginal policy and practice'. We note from the Government's response that you're proposing to push out the time frame of delivery of recommendation 9.4 from July 2024 to July 2026. This lines up, then, with recommendation 9.7, which already identified 2026 for the full implementation of this new executive director for Aboriginal children and young people role.
Given that it has been a clear priority of the commission of inquiry to identify the vulnerability of Aboriginal children in out of-home care and there are some delays - I'm not making any comment on those delays but there are going to be delays in terms of getting that executive director position in place - what steps are you taking in the interim to enhance protection of Aboriginal children in out of-home care? And have you increased or diverted funding to bolster existing support services for Aboriginal children in out of-home care?
Mr JAENSCH - Thank you for the question. As I understand it, the commission of inquiry's recommendation that was moved into the medium term, rather than immediate, includes a number of changes to executive structure and appointments, not just the director for Aboriginal children and young people. So there's a fair bit of machinery to mobilise around that -
Mr BAYLEY - And they didn't exactly line up. I appreciate and noted that.
Mr JAENSCH - They have to sequence and I thank you for acknowledging -
Mr BAYLEY - The question is, given the importance of this cohort of children and their vulnerability in the interim, until that position is up, what steps are you taking to ensure their protection?
Mr JAENSCH - There's a number of steps being taken right now. You may be aware of work being undertaken in the name of Closing the Gap with the Tasmanian Aboriginal Centre. There's about $2.5 million being invested in the development of capacity and capabilities to support young people in care and also to build the capacity of Aboriginal carers and providers of services around intensive family engagements, et cetera, so that we've got more Aboriginal people providing services for Aboriginal people and families. Under the Closing the Gap ethos, this is the way to ensure that those services stick better. Better chance of being culturally appropriate for people to be supported in culturally sensitive ways and for us to implement our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander child placement principles with more fidelity. There is significant investment from Government on that front through working with the TAC on a model that, once developed, can be expanded to other Aboriginal organisations and populations around Tasmania. They are the leader and they are doing an excellent job, and we will continue to invest with them.
I think there is another support role identified as well. There are Aboriginal liaison officers within the advice and referral line, who work with the TAC and the Circular Head Aboriginal Corporation so that there is an Aboriginal liaison and culturally informed approach to some of the investigations and follow-up on matters raised through the advice and referral line.
Mr BAYLEY - The Commission for Children and Young People recently released a new own-motion investigation report into out-of-home care, especially looking at the team's approach. The report was highly critical of the approach, noting that it had a direct negative impact on the rights of children. Can you please provide an update on the current number of children who are allocated to case management teams rather than to a primary child safety officer? How many teams are currently being used for the purpose of such allocations?
Mr JAENSCH - Just checking with the secretary. I believe we have two teams. There were two teams that were the subject of the commissioner's review. The numbers allocated to teams and the number of teams, we can take that on notice or you can provide that straight away? If that can be provided at the table that would be good. I'm happy for you to answer with that. Happy for you to provide the numbers.
Mr BULLARD - Thank you, minister. I've been informed that there are 550 team managed around the state.
Mr BAYLEY - Sorry, 550 children managed by teams?
Mr BULLARD - I'm just hoping that this adds up, Mr Bayley, but maybe if we go to the data underneath and we can do our maths after. There are 47 children in Devonport and 48 children in Burnie managed through the duty system. 191 children allocated to team 10 and 178 allocated to team 7 in the south, and 86 children team-managed within three case management teams in Launceston.
Mr BAYLEY - Are there children that are currently not allocated to either a primary child safety officer nor a case management team? If that's the case, how many are there and what's the current average length of time a child may remain unallocated?
Mr JAENSCH - While the secretary seeks that advice, there is a period of time we've spoken about before between a case entering our statutory child protection and receiving an allocation. Sometimes that reflects a period of diagnostic work being done, resolution of court matters, dealing with various other issues that have to do with the child's care that have to be resolved before an allocation can be made and their future in care can be resolved. Sometimes, a period of time without that allocation reflects work that's underway, including to preserve families, but also to ensure that we've got the right supports in place.
Mr BULLARD - Mr Bayley, I think your question was how many children and young people aren't either allocated to a child safety officer or allocated to a care team?
Mr BAYLEY - That's right.
Mr BULLARD - All children and young people are allocated to either a child safety officer or a care team. Just in terms of that number of team-managed, I'm advised that by and large they are children and young people in stable arrangements, such as stable foster care. Hence that's one of the determinants for why a young person may find themselves in a care team arrangement rather than allocated to a child safety officer.
Mr BAYLEY - They sort of preserve the child safety officers for those children who are less stable and are comfortable or stable in their out-of-home care environment?
Mr JAENSCH - Where there's a requirement for active management of safety aspects of their care, as opposed to say transition to independence or -
Mr BAYLEY - You've just given us the data on the number of children being looked after by these teams. Have you got the number of staff members in each team? The Devonport, the Burnie, team 10, team 7. I think the other one was Launceston?
Mr JAENSCH - Happy to take that one on notice.
Mr BAYLEY - Okay. Thank you.
