Ms O’CONNOR – Thank you, Chair. Minister, I’m interested in inquiring how the failed war on drugs is going in Tasmania and how much police resourcing is allocated towards, for example, users of cannabis. Are you able to or is Tas Police able to provide to the committee data on charges for cannabis possession and use year on year since 2020? The same for charges of cultivation and obviously trafficking under the drugs misuse act. Do you have the same data available? We’re interested in seeing if there are any trends in the use and Tasmania Police’s response to methamphetamine.
Mr ELLIS – Obviously we have a very different policy approach to the Greens. The Greens policy to –
Ms O’CONNOR – Evidence based.
Mr ELLIS – Legalise hard drugs would be a disaster.
Ms O’CONNOR – Evidence based.
Mr ELLIS – It’s clearly been a disaster in Oregon.
Ms O’CONNOR – Have you ever heard of a country called Portugal?
Mr ELLIS – It’s clearly been a disaster in Oregon where they’ve walked back those programs. Our focus is very much in terms of the traffickers because people who traffic in drugs fuel organised crime in this state, which is –
Ms O’CONNOR – That’s why you decriminalise, but anyway.
Mr ELLIS – Which is a threat to law abiding citizens around our state. It’s part of the reason why we take such strong action against outlaw motorcycle gangs and a whole range of others. Regarding the specific questions that you ask around some of those other areas, when it comes to cannabis possession and use, there is a range of different diversionary programs that we undertake. I’ll pass to Tasmania Police.
CHAIR – We’ll certainly stay away from the political aspect of any questioning. It doesn’t work here. It may in another place, but not here. Thank you.
Mr ELLIS – Thank you, Chair.
Ms ADAMS – Thank you. Through you, minister. We’ll get the figures for you. We’ll take that on notice if we can, back to 2020. I’ll just make a couple of comments. I would expect that there’ll be really low numbers of any interdiction by police in regards to cannabis use. It is not a focus for Tasmania police in regard to people using drugs. Our very clear focus is on those that traffic drugs, bring drugs into the state and impact the lives of, in particular, young Tasmanians. That is our focus. We also have a diversionary program in place to divert people from the criminal justice system, and that is the approach that we do take where there is an interdiction regarding use of an illicit substance.
Again, focused on those that bring the drugs into the state because we’ve seen significant harm and also crime that will subsequently be committed from those that are addicted to drugs and obviously wanting to continue to be able to be in a position to buy the drugs, we have to hit the suppliers and the traffickers. As I said, from a statistics perspective, we can get those for you on notice. We obviously watch the wastewater reports that come in from the Australian –
Ms O’CONNOR – Tasmania really has a very high level of illicit substance use, doesn’t it, according to those, and it’s consistent across datasets?
Ms ADAMS – Cannabis always features really high and there are a couple of locations. One is always Hobart because it’s closely associated with the hospital where we see a lot of prescription medication that would normally be prescribed for a particular person feature in obviously those with that testing. So that does skew the results. We use it as an indicator, a piece of intelligence, but it will indicate that cannabis is the drug that you will find in those wastewater reports above any other drug.
Ms O’CONNOR – Through you, minister. I’m also interested to see what the trends are in terms of methamphetamine ‘ice’ use and Tasmania Police’s response, the number of interdictions over it and whether we’re seeing – so sort of six or seven years ago, there was quite a marked increase across the state, and I’m interested in seeing what the trend data is.
Ms ADAMS – I’ll take that on notice in terms of our seizures. It still does feature in the drug operations that we do undertake targeting those particular traffickers. We have also seen the emergence of cocaine in Tasmania as well, which is concerning because there were five years ago very limited seizures of cocaine. We’ve seen an increase. So in terms of the figures over that period of time, I’m more than happy to take that on notice.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thank you. In terms of one of the most lethal substances we’ve ever invented, fentanyl, are we detecting any fentanyl in Tasmania?
Mr HIGGINS – Perhaps I might answer that one. Through you, minister. So not fentanyl as we’re seeing in the US or in limited amounts in other parts of the country, but it doesn’t mean it won’t happen. The fentanyl results that we’re getting from the wastewater treatments tend to be licit fentanyl within the hospitals and prescribed medications –
Ms O’CONNOR – Prescribed medication, yes.
Mr HIGGINS – We can already see, internationally, the effect it has on people and particularly places like San Francisco and others where it has an enormous impact on their communities.
Ms O’CONNOR – Is there a risk here that it’s being cut into heroin and people are buying something without knowing what they’re –
Mr HIGGINS – There’s always a risk in buying illicit drugs. There could be anything in them.
Ms O’CONNOR – Because there were reports of that some years back here.
Mr HIGGINS – Yes. There’s always risks in any illicit substance that you won’t know what’s actually in it. As far as the fentanyl that it’s being cut into I believe its cocaine –
Ms O’CONNOR – It’s cocaine, is it?
Mr HIGGINS – That’s not something we’ve seen here yet.
Ms O’CONNOR – And how do we –
Mr HIGGINS – That’s because we haven’t.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes, thank you. I mean, it’s a difficult communications challenge, isn’t it, to communicate to people who might buy an illicit substance, whether it be heroin or cocaine, and if we’re seeing that fentanyl’s coming into the country, how do we let people know that there’s extra risk here for them?
Mr ELLIS – There’s fentanyl that we know about coming into the country in other jurisdictions, but also, because it’s illegal, there’s also the risk that we don’t know as well.
Ms O’CONNOR – That’s right.
Mr ELLIS – But I’ll pass to Tasmania Police.
Mr HIGGINS – I’m not exactly sure it was fentanyl, but in Victoria in recent months there was a –
Mr BLACKWOOD – Nitazene.
Mr HIGGINS – Nitazene. There was a warning that went out –
Ms O’CONNOR – What’s that?
Mr BLACKWOOD – Nitazene is even stronger than fentanyl that is being cut into other drugs and there’s been fatalities. There were three fatalities in Victoria recently in relation to it, also New South Wales. We’re monitoring it and working with the Health department on it as well in case there are presentations in the hospital and not to go and catch that person but for us to be aware if it is in the state. Then, as you’re talking about, having that communication campaign to say, ‘Hey, we actually are seeing drugs cut with nitazene which can really have very quickly fatal consequences’.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes. Thank you, Chair. Through you, minister. How do you communicate with drug users around these risks?
Mr HIGGINS – Through you, minister. The Victorian government – I’m not sure if it was Victoria police – went public and said they tested it and they had a number of deaths and they essentially did public messaging.
Ms O’CONNOR – Is that something that Tasmania Police might consider, and we hope it never comes to that here should it happen – that there’s an open level of communication.
Ms HIGGINS – If need be, absolutely.
Ms ADAMS – We have a very strong governance with health where we meet in relation to what we see as emerging issues from illicit and licit drugs. We rely on information, and we rely on getting out information to GPs and pharmacists as well so that there’s a number of opportunities to monitor and detect where we’ve got people doctor-shopping, if that’s the term. There’s always that balance about causing concern in the community too early with a message such as that. We need to be informed, and it needs to be evidence-based, and we’ll certainly take the information that’s provided us by our health counterparts and also our interstate counterparts.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thanks, Commissioner.
