Dr WOODRUFF – Minister, a very large number of senior vets went public this Monday laying out the massive animal welfare issues with the racing industry. They made it clear: it’s simply impossible to race dogs of different sizes in packs of eight at 70 kilometres‑an‑hour on circular tracks and not expect horrible, painful injuries to regularly occur.
If you care for the welfare of animals, if Tasracing cares for the welfare of animals as much as it says it does, can you tell me whether you acknowledge the vets’ comments, or do you dispute their professional advice?
Ms HOWLETT – I thank Dr Woodruff for her question. Look, what I will say is, in relation to the statements from the Tasmanian vets, I’m very happy to meet with any party who has a genuine interest in improving animal welfare, regardless of their current position. Those who have a genuine desire for better animal welfare outcomes in the racing industry, I’m absolutely more than happy to meet with them and listen to their concerns.
Dr WOODRUFF – Do you acknowledge the truth of the advice that they’ve given us?
Ms HOWLETT – Dr Woodruff, I’m very, very happy to meet with those vets. I’ll see if Dr Lenz would like to make further comment to that.
Dr LENZ – Thank you very much, through you. In answer to your question, it is something that – we are looking to engage with the group of vets that you’ve mentioned. We are currently, actually, actively in the process of getting their names and contact details because we do want to make sure that we can engage with them on the matter of animal welfare, racing animal welfare, particularly. The issues that that they are bringing to the table, it is definitely something that we would like to ensure that the information that they have is up‑to-the-minute information, because we do know that the landscape and racing animal welfare has dramatically shifted, and it’s continuing to shift year by year. So, we just want to make sure that they are actually in possession of the latest information.
We do know that the number of dogs that have succumbed to serious injury and have been euthanised as a result of that injury has dramatically lowered, okay. That’s not just the rate of race day mortality on the day, but also we follow those dogs up for a period of 14 days now so that any final outcome is available. We are, I think, quite rightly are proud to say that since 2019, that rate has actually decreased by a factor of seven. and over the last two successive years we have achieved halving of that number in each one of those years.
We are very keen to engage with those vets because the truth of the matter is that we, those animal welfare results are largely down to the vets that do engage and do work with us. We could not achieve those outcomes as far as treating those injuries that occur on racetracks without the vets.
Dr WOODRUFF – Minister, 24 vets and 14 vet nurses on Monday released and showed ‑ some of them couldn’t watch it, a 60‑second film that is a compilation of recent track fatalities with greyhounds. Recent. It was brutal. It showed the cruel reality of animals writhing in pain from broken backs and broken necks, running on broken feet. This is today in the greyhound racing industry. Isn’t that why those expert vets want the industry to be shut down?
Ms HOWLETT – Chair, I thank Dr Woodruff for her comments. As I’ve stated before, our firm focus is on integrity and animal welfare moving forward. That is why we have, as I said, put through the biggest legislative reforms in decades through parliament. We are setting up an independent integrity committee to focus on animal welfare. We have Dr Lenz here who’s an expert in veterinary science. We are happy to work with those vets and meet with those vets and discuss the issues they have.
Dr WOODRUFF – Have you watched or will you watch that footage, and are you comfortable that Tasracing edits the footage to sanitise it for Tasmanians so they can’t see the reality of the horrific injuries happening, the deaths that occurring in greyhound racing?
Ms HOWLETT – As I mentioned, Dr Woodruff, any death, any injury, the owners and the trainers take this to heart. They are devastated when there’s a fatality or an injury to their animals. Dr Lenz, I know you’re wanting to –
Dr WOODRUFF – Minister, will you look at the footage? Have you looked at the footage?
Ms HOWLETT – I have not looked at the footage, Dr Woodruff.
Dr WOODRUFF – Will you look at it?
Ms HOWLETT – But yes, I will look at the –
Dr WOODRUFF – And will you make sure that Dr Lenz does, and that the chair and the CEO –
Ms HOWLETT – Dr Lenz and I will look at the footage together. Yes, I’ll make that commitment to you. Dr Lenz?
Dr WOODRUFF – Well, I have-
Dr LENZ – Thank you, minister. We don’t have the footage that you’re specifically referring to.
Dr WOODRUFF – It’s available online.
Dr LENZ – What we would like to know is if it’s Tasmanian footage, for one? Because the number of deaths that occur on track are at an all-time low. As I’ve said previously – we welcome engagement with the 14 – sorry, 24 – vets you have referenced, because we want to make sure those 24 vets are equally across the breadth of animal welfare reform we have undertaken, as are the multitude of vets actually helping us achieve those outcomes. They’re the vets that are on track, providing the care to those animals while they’re racing, and they’re also the vets that are taking on any injured animal and providing excellent outcomes, as far as treating the treatable injuries and that’s what we’re all about.
Dr WOODRUFF – Excuse me. Thank you, Dr Lenz. The question really was to the minister. These are all recent Tasmanian track deaths.
Could you please ask – or through the Chair, maybe, if appropriate – for the CEO: a couple of years ago, Mr Jenkins said that ‘community members who stand up for greyhound welfare are a selfish minority’. That was a quote in the Mercury from a couple of years ago. If it’s appropriate to ask Mr Jenkins, does he still think that the members of the vet community who have come forward are a selfish minority?
Ms HOWLETT – Chair, I thank Dr Woodruff for her question. Chair, would you like to add comments to the question?
Mr JENKINS – Thanks minister, and through you chair, and thank you Dr Woodruff. The comments that you’re referring to I absolutely stand by, and the context of those comments were in relation to public opposition against a charity event that was being held by the Hobart Greyhound Racing Club in support of Ronald McDonald House. There was direct contact made and lobbying efforts effectively made to Ronald McDonald House to not participate in that racing event.
I would suggest for a single interest group to undertake that type of activity because of the views that they hold, and would have had an impact of reducing or eliminating over $30,000 donated to Ronald McDonald House – the equivalent of nearly 200 bed nights for Tasmanian families with their children in hospital – I think that’s absolutely selfish and I absolutely stand by those comments.
Dr WOODRUFF – Would you call vets a selfish minority?
CHAIR – Mr Ferguson.
Dr WOODRUFF – Can I just clarify a point I made earlier to the committee? I said that all of the all of the dogs on that 60-second video were Tasmanian from Tasmanian races. There was Black Roses from Launceston with a broken leg, William’s Way from Launceston with a broken neck, Hey Thunder from Launceston with a broken leg, Shrifton from Hobart with a broken leg, but there was one from New South Wales showing what a broken back in a dog looks like.
Ms HOWLETT – Okay, so there was one from New South Wales?
Dr WOODRUFF – Yes. Those other four dogs are all Tasmanian dogs from recent races.
Ms HOWLETT – Thank you, Dr Woodruff.
Dr WOODRUFF – My question is through the chair to the CEO, if that’s appropriate. As Mr Jenkins is the CEO of a GBE, I would like to know what steps he’s taken to personally meet with animal welfare advocates who have been very vocal in their concerns, including the greyhound group in Tasmania, the very wide Animal Liberation Tasmania, and the vets and vet nurses. It’s now been five days since they made that announcement.
Ms HOWLETT – Thank you, Dr Woodruff, for your question. I know that the CEO would like to make some statements.
Mr JENKINS – Thank you, minister, and thank you once again, Dr Woodruff. Typically, my engagement with stakeholders as regards these matters would be through a peak body such as the RSPCA and I’m very open to those types of discussions.
As regards the vets and vet nurses that you’ve referenced, and Dr Lenz has provided some earlier guidance, we would absolutely welcome the opportunity to engage with that body of professionals. We would like to share our perspective and Dr Lenz’s perspective and knowledge and edify them as to the many improvements we have made and significant improvements that have been made in animal welfare.
We will also absolutely welcome their skills, knowledge and experience as we move into final preparation for the release to public consultation of what will be an enforceable under the rules greyhound code of practice, similar to the Equine Code of Practice that Dr Lenz developed and released recently. There’s a very important and pointed opportunity for those professionals to engage with us.
In terms of timing, I can advise that Dr Lenz has already commenced drafting formal communication and correspondence to those bodies of professionals. I expect we will release that either to the individuals, if we’re able to be provided with their contact details, or via an open letter and I expect that will occur early next week at the latest.
Dr WOODRUFF – The EMRS (Enterprise Marketing & Research Services) poll shows that 62 per cent of Tasmanians do not support the greyhound racing industry and that 79 per cent of Tasmanians – these are statistically significant samples – don’t want any public subsidies going to it.
My question to the CEO is a follow-up one. The very large group of people, including Let Greyhounds Be Free, Animal Liberation Tasmania and all the work they do, are significant stakeholders in Tasmania for animal welfare. Mr Eriksson, your former CEO, used to meet with bodies like this. Why won’t you meet with them? Will you change your mind and broaden, lean in, to the reality of the views in the community and meet with them and engage with them?
Ms HOWLETT – Dr Woodruff, I thank you for your question. I just want to be very clear, and I’ve stated this on the record multiple times before as well. As Minister for Racing I will not be banning greyhound racing or any other code in the racing industry. We have a focus on improving animal welfare and restoring trust and faith in the industry, and that is our focus. If the CEO would like to add to that, you’re more than welcome to.
Dr WOODRUFF – Or to the question.
Mr JENKINS – Thank you. Potentially, there is value in meeting with other stakeholder groups. If those groups would like to make contact with myself or Dr Lenz on the basis of engaging in a meaningful way – and what I mean by that is more than just shut down greyhound racing – then I’m potentially very open to having dialogue with them.
Also, if they would like to put forward suggestions or matters of veterinary science for our consideration, absolutely. We are strongly pro- racing animal welfare, so we will absolutely give that due consideration for potential inclusion in our programs and policies and the significant body of work that Dr Lenz is leading for us. So, yes.
Dr WOODRUFF – Well, thank you. Because I think, whilst they might have a view of not wanting the industry to exist, fundamentally they’re coming at it from the point of view of loving gentle dogs and wanting to find ways to have less harm happen to gentle dogs and horses.
That is actually the point, we know there are many things that could change about the animal welfare regulations and laws. Minister, that’s on you to take those steps, because they haven’t happened so far. But, there are still things that can happen.
Ms HOWLETT – Dr Woodruff, I’m very happy to meet with any group and discuss how we can do things better. I’ve met with you previously and you know I’m very open to that. I guess that’s why I’m very excited about the new commissioner, starting on the 15 December, and also our animal welfare integrity committee we’ve established.
Dr WOODRUFF – The annual report has devastating information in it that shows the evidence that there were 70 fewer dogs who were rehomed in the previous year – 72, actually ‑ and that is a devastating number. There are also 43 retired greyhounds who were euthanised last year, which is triple the rate of the previous year. Tasracing pays the cost to the Greyhound Assistance Program, GAP, for the dogs that are lucky enough to survive the racetrack to be rehabilitated and rehomed. We know that other organisations, especially the Dogs Home of Tasmania, Brightside, and many other good-hearted groups take in and care for greyhounds.
Can I get some numbers, and perhaps you can take this on notice, about how much funding the GAP received in the 2023‑24 year for particular aspects of the work that they did? I would like information on the salaries, the maintenance, the dog care, the cost of each dog, the security, and the advertising and marketing. Could I get that breakdown? I am happy to give these on notice, these particular detailed parts of those questions.
Ms HOWLETT – Is there any data that we can give Dr Woodruff now?
Mr JENKINS – With the chair’s endorsement, I might ask our chief financial officer to the table to provide some initial commentary to the member.
Ms HOWLETT – I’d like to introduce chief financial officer Darren Hill to the table.
Dr WOODRUFF – I had some specific questions through you, minister. Mr Hill, how much money was spent for the manager, how much money for the staff, and how much money for consultants? Three separate categories.
Mr HILL – I won’t have the information on the manager at the moment. However, total labour costs for the GAP facility were $499,000 for the full year. That included all costs, contract labour costs and annual leave and award superannuation entitlements, et cetera. Total cost for the GAP facility, over $1.4 million for the full year.
Dr WOODRUFF – I did want, and I’ll put this on notice for later, but the specific breakdown for the difference between the grounds, the fences, and the building and kennel upkeep, because they’re different categories within the maintenance, and the specific salary breakdowns of those three groups?
Mr HILL – Individuals?
Dr WOODRUFF – Well, there’s just the manager, the collective staff, and then the consultants, for example, behaviourist consultants and for staff training and education.
For dog care, how much money is spent on food, enrichment, bedding, and rehabilitation? How much money is spent for vets’ bills, vet visits, and other, for each dog?
Then security installation, upkeep, and then the personnel. Then there’s also the advertising budget. There’s, I believe, billboards, newspapers, social media and online costs. How many dogs went through? What was the cost per dog? You said $1.4 million and $499,000?
Mr HILL – That’s correct. Yeah. Some of those others, for example, greyhound feed was $51,000. Veterinary fees paid through the GAP facility were $39,000 for the year.
Dr WOODRUFF – Does that include vet visits?
Mr HILL – It should do.
Dr WOODRUFF – Call‑outs and everything?
Mr HILL – Yes.
Dr WOODRUFF – Grounds?
Mr HILL – Grounds and building maintenance expenditure at the site was $33,600.
Dr WOODRUFF – Security?
Mr HILL – Security at the site was $181,000 for the full year.
Dr WOODRUFF – That includes personnel?
Mr HILL – Yes, that’s the full cost of the security. We don’t have any security guards on employment, they’re all via contract.
Dr WOODRUFF – Advertising and marketing?
Mr HILL – Advertising, we’ll probably need to take that on notice. There’s a number of sections in there such as, we’ve spent $1000 on marketing and administration, however, there’s another marketing and events section which is $6600. We probably want to go through most of the costs in a lot more detail and come back to you with a final figure on those.
Dr WOODRUFF – Thank you. Minister, I’ll put on notice those questions. I note that some of them have been answered, but there’s specific other areas if Mr Hill could provide them. Is that alright?
Ms HOWLETT – Yes, the ones that haven’t been answered, if you could please provide them in writing to the Chair and we’ll get back to you.
Dr WOODRUFF – Minister, what we established from Dr Lenz is there are at least 33 greyhounds that are retired, but we do know a large number of these are appearing on Gumtree. Last year at budget estimates – earlier this year – you acknowledged that giving away greyhounds on Gumtree and other platforms was inappropriate and committed to doing something about it. Can you tell us what’s changed since then?
Ms HOWLETT – Yeah, look, I certainly did make that commitment. I’d like to see greyhounds rehomed through the proper authorities and not on Gumtree. Dr Lenz, would you like to?
Dr LENZ – Certainly.
Dr WOODRUFF – Sorry, the question is really to you. What actions have you taken to make sure – that’s sort of a regulatory action?
Ms HOWLETT – We’ve certainly had discussions about that and are working out ways of enforcing that does not occur in the future.
Dr WOODRUFF – Has anything changed? Are greyhounds still being rehomed, traded for sale on Gumtree, without them being tracked?
Dr LENZ – Can I?
Ms HOWLETT – Yes.
Dr LENZ – Thank you. It is an issue. From that list of categories for retirement, those dogs that you’re referring to would most likely sit in the retired to a third-party category. We don’t have – and I wonder if you have the actual figures of how many dogs went through that online auction.
Dr WOODRUFF – Well, how would we know? Why would we know? This is the problem. There’re no rules to follow greyhounds from-
Dr LENZ – You’ve referred to many, so I wondered whether you had an actual number for us to work with.
Dr WOODRUFF – Thank you to the greyhound advocacy organisations who are doing this work of tracking it, because obviously the government, with all of its resources, isn’t doing this work. That is terrible when we see what happened to Zipping Princess and so many other dogs. This is the reality of greyhound racing in Tasmania, dogs get discarded.
And the follow up question, minister, is, when are you going to introduce tracking of dogs from birth all the way through to death? All the way through.
Ms HOWLETT – Thank you, Dr Lenz.
Dr LENZ – The tracking of greyhounds, while they’re in the breeding and racing phase, is done right now through the Rules of Racing.
Dr WOODRUFF – Yeah, we know that.
Dr LENZ – When they leave that jurisdiction, they’re not lost to follow up because they fall under different legislation. For instance, under the Animal Welfare Act – and there are specific entities that enforce that legislation. We welcome, once again, close communication and close cooperation with those other agencies, and they would include obviously NRE – so that resources and RSPCA. But the fact remains that our jurisdiction under the rules only applies from birth until retirement – unless the dog is retired to an industry person, in which case we do have ongoing jurisdiction.
Dr WOODRUFF – Thank you. Yes, so –
Dr LENZ – It falls under somebody else’s jurisdiction. We’re open to cooperating with them to ensure that dogs are tracked from-
Dr WOODRUFF – Yes-
CHAIR – Last one, and then Ms Johnston.
Dr WOODRUFF – The issue is they’re not being tracked. Minister, when are you going to include this in the local Rules of Racing? This is critical?
Ms HOWLETT – These are discussions which can occur when the integrity committee ‑ yes, sorry, Dr Lenz?
Dr WOODRUFF – Well, I’d really just prefer keeping it with you, minister.
Dr LENZ – I have a very specific answer. The Rules of Racing do not apply to members of the public. Introducing a local rule that doesn’t apply to a member of the public makes no sense. What does make sense is close cooperation with the entities that have jurisdiction under that legislation.
Dr WOODRUFF – Well, you can do that now, but you’re not doing it. Like, dogs are being sold on Gumtree. There’s no oversight.
CHAIR – Dr Woodruff, I’ve given you a lot of flexibility to pursue a line of questioning. Stop interjecting. If the answer’s finished or if it’s going to keep – we’ll move on to Ms Johnston.
Dr WOODRUFF – Minister, Dr Lenz said GAP undertakes a very detailed condition report for every greyhound that comes into the facility. Can you please table, or can I take on notice, the condition report for every dog that’s been received by the GAP facility in the last two years?
Ms HOWLETT – Yes, absolutely. That’s not a problem.
Dr WOODRUFF – Thank you. In regard to the dental rebate, the requirement for desexing, vaccination and dental, why isn’t there an expectation that owners would be managing the teeth of their greyhound throughout their life? Why is the public paying a dental rebate? This is something an owner should do if they are taking care of their dog.
Ms HOWLETT – Chair, I thank Dr Woodruff for her question. I know Dr Lenz is wanting to answer that.
Dr LENZ – Thank you for the question. Absolutely, there is a responsibility on any animal owners to provide for the care. With the way the rules have evolved, the first component of that was making desexing mandatory upon retirement of an animal. There is a draft rule that I’m aware of that is also going to mandate the dental work having to be mandatorily done before retiring a dog. So, we’re really providing that signal to our group of owners and trainers that, ‘Hey, you know, these are normal expectations’, and I’m happy to say they are normal expectations in owning an animal.
Tasracing has a role to play in the education and the transition of practices. That, I think, is that balance we’re achieving now. The trainers and owners are required to pay up‑front for those services, for those veterinary services. Tasracing provides a capped rebate amount for those services. So, there is that expectation that the trainer is paying up‑front for the services, and we refund, rebate an amount. There is flexibility built in. We can vary the amounts that we put into rebates. As I said, it’s a continuum, it’s an education process, and it’s changing practices. That’s what we’re doing with that scheme.
Dr WOODRUFF – Thank you. Is there pushback from the industry about these costs they’re being required to meet. I think the average dog owner in the community would expect that if an owner is handing a dog over for rehoming, the requirement should be on them to pay the dental bill if the dog’s teeth aren’t in a good state, rather than Tasmanians having to pay for that. Has there been pushback in the industry about having to pay the real costs of caring for these gentle animals?
Ms HOWLETT – Chair, I thank Dr Woodruff for her question. I’ve not heard any pushback from the industry at all. Dr Lenz, can you provide any more details?
Dr LENZ – I think it’s fair to say – we talked about vets earlier, that there’s probably some general pushback across all of society when they are faced with veterinary medical bills because in the veterinary field we don’t have a Medicare system. It is the real cost that owners of animals pay. There’s no Medicare rebate. Having said that, there is obviously also a realisation across the whole of society, including the members of the Tasmanian greyhound participants that, yeah, this is a cost of looking after those animals. As I said, Tasracing’s role is transitioning our industry into that change, and that’s what we’re doing.
Dr WOODRUFF – Thank you, Dr Lenz. Just to clarify, is the expectation that you are going to move towards a requirement for owners to pay for these dental services – regular dental work throughout their racing life, not just at the end?
Dr LENZ – Yeah, so, two parts of that question. Number one is that the money that is paid into those rebate schemes, basically, is taken out of prize money. It’s money that would otherwise be allocated to prize money. It’s a different way of having the industry pay for the cost –
Dr WOODRUFF – It’s a wholly subsidised industry, of course, subsidised by the taxpayers.
Dr LENZ – Well, you can argue that, obviously, the industry generates income from betting that goes to taxation, but that’s probably beyond the scope of this.
Yeah, there is that flexibility that we’ve built into those schemes where we can set signals, do some education and then as practices adapt. And I agree with you. The journey of looking after the teeth of an animal, of a dog, doesn’t just start when they’re retired. There’s preventative things that need to go on much sooner. We’re helping the industry get onto that side of things, the preventative side. And look, a lot of them are doing it.
Dr WOODRUFF – So, to clarify, is that the expectation of where you’re going? Are you moving towards the requirement that owners will look after the teeth of their animals throughout their racing life, not just at the point at which they’re being rehomed?
Dr LENZ – Yeah, it’s something that will be covered in the Code of Practice. Just understanding, helping participants gain that understanding that dental care starts –
Dr WOODRUFF – It’s not the same thing as a requirement, it’s not mandatory.
Dr LENZ – Well, we retain that flexibility. We want an outcome and we retain the flexibility of how we achieve that outcome. I think that’s a fair way to look at that issue. We want people, just like yourself, to have that awareness that dental care and dental preventative care starts earlier than retirement. We’re on side with that sentiment.
Dr WOODRUFF – I have some questions on Tasracing’s employment figures. How many Tasracing staff are directly employed in greyhound racing only? How many Tasracing staff are shared across greyhound racing and another code? How many stewards are assigned to each code? How many FTEs in Tasracing? What is the total number of trainers, breeders and owners in greyhound racing? Perhaps, I can take them on notice? Would you prefer or do you have the figures there?
Ms HOWLETT – Let us try and answer as many of those as we possibly can and considering they are operation matters for Tasracing, I’ll pass over to the CEO.
Mr JENKINS– I think those –
Dr WOODRUFF – Do you want me to read them again?
Mr JENKINS – Would you mind? I am sorry.
Dr WOODRUFF – That is okay. How many staff are directly employed in greyhound racing only? Do you want to take these on notice? I can just put them on notice if you would prefer or do you have the figures at hand?
Mr JENKINS – I will answer those that I can.
Dr WOODRUFF – That was the first one, greyhound racing only.
Mr JENKINS – Greyhound racing only. We have one greyhound code manager and a number of race day casuals that will come in and out. I do not have an exact number on those who are casual. If I can take that on notice Dr Woodruff, that would be appreciated.
Dr WOODRUFF – One-person full time and then you’ll take on notice of casuals. How many are shared across greyhound racing and another code? Is that full time equivalent person shared or just for greyhound racing?
Mr JENKINS – We had one full-time staff member who moves across the harness and greyhound codes. Similarly, there are a number of casual employees. Once again, if I could take that just to make that matter on notice –
CHAIR – To be clear, either the minister or the chair has to agree to take it on notice. Minister, if you can indicate that you are happy for these questions to be taken on notice, the CEO cannot do that.
Mr JENKINS – Sorry, Chair, point of order. Thank you.
Ms HOWLETT – I’m happy for what can’t be answered to be taken on notice in writing, Dr Woodruff.
Dr WOODRUFF – To be clear, there’s one full time equivalent in greyhound racing? There is one full time equivalent who is shared between harness and greyhound racing.
Mr JENKINS – That’s right.
Dr WOODRUFF – Then the casuals which you’ll take on notice. How many stewards are assigned to each of the three codes?
Mr JENKINS – Stewards are a typically a rotating pool. We do have some stewards and I might add I’m speaking on behalf of the Office of Racing Integrity. Perhaps, if I specifically take those on notice because there are a number of stewards, Dr Woodruff, that do rotate regularly across the different codes. We will get you the data.
Dr WOODRUFF – Thank you. The total number of full-time equivalents employed by Tasracing as we stand today.
Mr JENKINS – I think it would be 83. I’m going from memory, but I can certainly get the most recent board paper and confirm that for you formally on notice.
Dr WOODRUFF – What is the total number of trainers, breeders and owners in greyhound racing? I would like to know the separate numbers of where an individual is a breeder and/or a trainer and/or an owner. Separate numbers for trainers, breeders and owners in greyhound racing.
Mr JENKINS – I understood, that is something that I will defer and take if I may. Yes, I certainly can provide.
