Dr WOODRUFF - Minister, I have some questions about employment that maybe you could take on notice if you think they can be answered. How many people employed in Youth Justice have had their roles terminated due to issues related to child sexual abuse since October 2020?
Mr JAENSCH - My answer would be the same as previously. I'm advised that we should not be sharing numbers broken down to a service. I understand that some of the routine disclosures that have been put forward offer numbers at agency level.
Dr WOODRUFF - Yes, that's what I'm asking for.
Mr JAENSCH - That would be the whole of the Department for Education, Children and Young People?
Dr WOODRUFF - The Youth Justice area. That's not a service.
Mr JAENSCH - No, it's a specific area within that. The numbers that are offered up through routine disclosure proactively are by agency. Is that correct, secretary?
Dr WOODRUFF - How many people are employed in the Youth Justice area within DECYP?
Mr JAENSCH - We can get that number for you. It may be possible to have that at the table.
Dr WOODRUFF - It's hard to imagine how providing the numbers of people who have been terminated is in any way revealing of information.
Mr JAENSCH - We've been through this before and we've had clear advice that -
Dr WOODRUFF - This is specific and understandably different from what Ms Haddad's been asking. It's a much higher order group of people and, don't forget, it's in the public interest to have this information. People must have confidence that actions have been taken, or at least have a sense that work is being undertaken at the moment.
Mr JAENSCH - That's what the proactive disclosure reporting is for, to show by agency annually. Mr Bullard can update us on that.
Mr BULLARD - I think there are two things running. There is an annual disclosure that is made by the State Service Management Office around terminations but there is also routine disclosure around matters pertaining to suspensions, et cetera, around child sexual abuse, and that is made once a quarter, I believe.
Dr WOODRUFF - It's a whole-of-State Service thing.
Mr JAENSCH - There is a range of things there that in the public interest people can see evidence of the numbers of public servants, including by agency for some of these breakdowns, on a regular basis that can give confidence that cases are being acted on, there are investigations and consequences as well to satisfy or to respond to that interest. That is why this information is being put forward.
The other thing that we need to maintain, and we have been advised on, is that the release of information by site or work group or profession can sometimes lead to there being very small numbers of cases in a relatively small number of employees, which in Tasmania can very easily lead people to draw conclusions about a person's employment status and the reasons for it.
Dr WOODRUFF - Just a simple no will do, minister, because we don't have long to continue asking you questions.
CHAIR - Order.
Mr JAENSCH - For the protection of people from those consequences but also to protect the integrity of investigations, we're advised that we shouldn't be breaking it down.
Dr WOODRUFF - Is the pseudonym of 'Stan', who Ms Haddad referred to earlier, a person who does not have a name in the report but has had serious allegations of multiple rapes by an employee, still in the employment of the Department of Justice?
Mr JAENSCH - Again, I don't believe we are in a position to speak on individual cases without -
Dr WOODRUFF - Is he undergoing an ED5?
Mr JAENSCH - Without an identity or even with one.
Dr WOODRUFF - What do you say to victims/survivors who want to know whether that person is still under the pay of the Tasmanian Government?
CHAIR - Order.
Mr BULLARD - I think the minister's being clear in terms of our process. Where there are allegations of child sexual abuse, then that person is asked to stay away from the workplace pending an assessment of the information. If that information provides us with a basis to move to an investigation under an ED5, they are suspended under ED4 and will remain suspended until such time as the determinations made and -
Dr WOODRUFF - How many ED5 investigations have been undertaken of department of youth justice employees since October 2020? I just want a number; you wouldn't be able to identify these people.
CHAIR - Dr Woodruff.
Mr BULLARD - Again, the minister has said that it has been agreed because of identifying individuals as being reported on a whole of service basis. I might have said agency basis, it is whole of service. In terms of the routine disclosure since October 2020, the Department of Premier and Cabinet has been disclosing the number of state servants suspended for child sexual abuse, because it was recognised that the public would want to know that staff had been stood down under ED4. It changes regularly, but it is at currently 74.
Dr WOODRUFF - Yes, I know those numbers, thank you, Mr Bullard.
CHAIR - Order.
Mr BULLARD - Then on 30 September, the head of the State Service published the annual disclosure, which was broken down by department for state service who'd been suspended for 2023. There have been 30 suspensions for allegations of child sexual abuse in total and 25 of those suspended due to allegations of child sexual abuse in the department of Children and Young People.
Dr WOODRUFF - Thank you, I have those numbers.
Mr BULLARD - Today, so we are clear, the Department of Premier and Cabinet has published a third routine disclosure on the assessment and actions by relevant heads of agency of current and former State Service employees referred to in the final commission of inquiry report. This includes a separate disclosure by the commissioner for police for current and former officers employed under the Police Service Act.
Dr WOODRUFF - Chair, if you wouldn't mind, we've 15 minutes left. I'd like clarification on this. Where the committee does no longer need the information that has been provided, it is our right to move on to the next question. It could otherwise be seen as taking up unnecessary time when we have very few questions left.
CHAIR - Thank you, Dr Woodruff. I encourage the answer to conclude.
Mr JAENSCH - I have an answer to a question you raised earlier. The number of employees employed in youth justice is 98 FTE or head count 98.
