Ms O’CONNOR – Thank you. Minister, I would like to ask you about the heritage precincts in and around Sullivans Cove and the stadium. As you know, under section 7 of the act, the Tasmanian Heritage Council is required to advise you on matters relating to our historic cultural heritage and the measures necessary to conserve that heritage for the benefit of current and future generations, and to work with the planning system to achieve the proper protection of Tasmania’s historic cultural heritage. Minister, have you had advice from the Tasmanian Heritage Council on the heritage impacts of the proposed Macquarie Point Stadium, particularly on the Cenotaph and the Goods Shed?
Ms OGILVIE – Let me just confirm in my notes, I don’t believe that I have had specific advice on the Cenotaph, but I will check that. I certainly have had specific advice – there we go – on adjoining sites more generally. In February 2024, the Tasmanian Planning Commission released its guidelines for assessment of the stadium as a project of state significance, and those guidelines require the applicant to consider all places and precincts of historic, cultural significance within the project site, including those within or partly within 100 metres of the title boundary.
Ms O’CONNOR – Minister, I understand this, and it is not actually relevant to the question. The question was given that the Tasmanian Heritage Council, under the ministerial statement of expectations, is to bring to your attention any information on significant issues affecting the council’s work – that is, heritage – have you been provided with advice by the Tasmanian Heritage Council on the Cenotaph and the Goods Shed as it relates to the impact on heritage values?
Ms OGILVIE – Yes. Turning to the goods shed specifically, alongside the nomination for the Macquarie Point Goods Shed, of which you would be aware, the Heritage Council has also received a nomination for the whole of the Macquarie Point site on an archaeological basis. At that layer. So yes, on the Goods Shed, the archaeological basis for the nomination of the whole site is being considered from what I am currently advised.
I don’t believe I specifically have been provided advice in relation to the Cenotaph, unless something is working its way through the system, and I will just need to confirm that. But in 2023, the Heritage Council did determine to accept the nomination for part of the Macquarie Point in the vicinity of the Royal Engineers Building, which is just slightly before the Cenotaph site, and this area is subject to potential detailed archaeological assessment subject to studies to be taken by the Macquarie Point Development Corporation. I understand these studies are yet to be finalised.
Let me just check specifically on the Cenotaph question for you. I’m just getting some advice about the process and protocols. It would be the department that would provide that advice, and I don’t believe I’ve had specific advice about the Cenotaph, and also we’re dealing with the POSS act, so the processes – because the Heritage Council is independent of me, it would be inappropriate to be provided with that advice in relation to the Cenotaph.
Ms O’CONNOR – Well, hang on. Section 7 of the act is really clear. The Heritage Council provides you with advice on heritage impacts.
Ms OGILVIE – I’m happy to get advice on it. I’m just saying I don’t –
Ms O’CONNOR – Just to be clear –
Ms OGILVIE – From the department.
Ms O’CONNOR – I’m not suggesting you get advice.
Ms OGILVIE – Sorry, I’m –
Ms O’CONNOR – What I’m saying is under the act, the Heritage Council has an obligation to provide you with advice on matters that are relevant to historic cultural heritage of state significance. What I’m hearing from you, minister, is that your Heritage Council has not provided any advice to you as minister on the Cenotaph which next year celebrates its centenary and on which there’d be very significant impacts on their sightlines which are part of their historic heritage value.
Ms OGILVIE – Yes. I want to be careful and I don’t want to split hairs about where the advice comes from, but my understanding is it’s the department. Melissa would be available just to comment on that process.
Ms O’CONNOR – That’s fine, but are you telling us that you haven’t had a meeting with the Heritage Council about the heritage impacts of the stadium?
Ms OGILVIE – No, I’m not saying that. I’m saying I haven’t specifically had a meeting in relation to the Cenotaph. I’ve just detailed the archaeological work and the application for nomination of the Goods Shed. So there’s been quite a bit of work, but not the Cenotaph specifically.
Ms O’CONNOR – Can I ask then while this information is coming to the table, has the Tasmanian Heritage Council advised you that it is supportive of those stadium works that would impact on the Cenotaph’s values but also that would require the removal and relocation of the Goods Shed? Does that have the endorsement of the Tasmanian Heritage Council?
Ms OGILVIE – No, but I would –
Ms O’CONNOR – No advice from the council?
Ms OGILVIE – To the Cenotaph question. I would like Melissa to just flesh out the process, and then I would like to speak specifically the one I have had a meeting with them on, and this is public knowledge, the decision that they have made around the Goods Shed. So that’s where the focus has been.
Ms O’CONNOR – But did you, at that meeting, minister, talk about the impact on the Goods Shed? What did the Heritage Council say to you about the impact on the Goods Shed of relocating it and –
Ms OGILVIE – Yes. So the Heritage Council makes independent decisions. I can’t influence that and I don’t go over the top and I don’t direct them. So they’ve made a –
Ms O’CONNOR – I understand that. We’re talking about the advice they gave you.
Ms OGILVIE – They’ve made a decision and that’s the decision of which I’m aware, and I have that conversation about what was the decision. I will just ask Melissa to go through the process because I know there is complexity, particularly around the POSS space.
Ms FORD – Through you, minister. Regarding the Macquarie Point Railway Goods Shed and its consideration in the context of the stadium, the project of state significance process is outside the Historic Cultural Heritage Act and the Tasmanian Heritage Council will not be making a statutory determination –
Ms O’CONNOR – Unbelievable. Thank you very much for that answer. So just to be clear, what the committee’s just heard, minister, is that because the stadium is a project of state significance, the Heritage Council’s obligations to provide a statement of significance over our sacred Cenotaph and the Goods Shed has been thrown out the window.
Ms OGILVIE – The Heritage Council would, of course, want to make a submission under the POSS process.
Ms FORD – I hadn’t finished my answer.
Ms OGILVIE – She hadn’t finished.
Ms O’CONNOR – Sorry.
Ms FORD – Through you, minister. Thank you. I hadn’t finished the rest of that answer.
Ms OGILVIE – Yes, go ahead.
Ms FORD – So the Tasmanian Planning Commission has advised that the Macquarie Point stadium assessment process will be a 12‑month process from the date of acceptance of the applicant’s submission. As an agency with a relevant interest, the Heritage Council will have the opportunity for input at several stages, the first being a high‑level response within 28 days of notification of acceptance of the applicant’s submission. Then there will be an opportunity for the Tasmanian Planning Commission to engage with technical experts in heritage matters.
That’s the technical experts that are in the works team in the Heritage Tasmania branch. To inform that, the assessment panel’s draft integrated assessment report. So that’s two members of my team. Then there’ll be another opportunity when the assessment panel seeks public submissions in response to the assessment panel’s draft integrated impact assessment report. My understanding is they will also conduct hearings as part of that process. It is at that point that the Heritage Council will most likely provide a submission.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thank you. Minister, is it still within your ministerial statement of expectations that the council brings to your attention any information on significant issues affecting the council’s work?
Ms OGILVIE – We are currently redoing the ministerial statement of expectations. As for what is – I haven’t a photographic memory. I would have to bring that forward and –
Ms O’CONNOR – Pretty significant line.
Ms OGILVIE – Yes. So we are currently redoing that and it will be published. In relation to what the current ministerial statement says, I’d actually have to get that document in front of me and read it.
Ms O’CONNOR – I’m a little bit surprised, to be honest, given the significance of the whole precinct and the buildings that we’ve talked about, that the Heritage Council has not advised you on this matter –
Ms OGILVIE – It’s the department that advises me.
Ms O’CONNOR – But the Heritage Council has an obligation under the act, as I understand it, to bring matters to your attention when they have an impact on the council’s work but also an impact on heritage of state significance, which you’d agree the Cenotaph of course is.
Ms OGILVIE – Love the Cenotaph.
Ms O’CONNOR – It’s a pity that your government wants to take away one of the key sightlines to St George’s Church.
Ms OGILVIE – POSS project –
CHAIR – Let’s get the question and answer process going here, otherwise I’m going to have to move on.
Ms OGILVIE – Fair enough.
CHAIR – Does the member have another question because I can come back.
Ms O’CONNOR – My question is, will you take this up with the Heritage Council and ask why you haven’t been provided with a statement of significance on the Cenotaph or the Goods Shed?
Ms OGILVIE – What I will do –
Ms O’CONNOR – Or why you haven’t been provided with advice.
Ms OGILVIE – Very happy to seek advice from the department around the most appropriate way to do that.
CHAIR – Thank you.
Ms OGILVIE – No probs.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thank you, Madam Chair. Minister, under the act, section 7, general functions and powers of the Heritage Council, the first function, (1)(a), is ‘to advise the Minister on matters relating to Tasmania’s historic cultural heritage’. Are you confirming today at the table that you’ve received no advice from the Heritage Council on the likely impacts of the stadium on the cenotaph’s heritage values, the goods shed’s heritage values, the engineering building’s heritage values, Evans Street, the art school? Are you saying that through all this time when it’s been known that this project of state significance development application would be lodged, you have received no advice from your Heritage Council about the impact of this project on our heritage? I could put it another way. Have you received –
Ms OGILVIE – It’s a question of timing.
Ms O’CONNOR – Have you received any advice?
Ms OGILVIE – Sorry, I’m just getting some advice here. The advice I’m just receiving there is around the process and the timing of how these matters are addressed. I understand that there has been no development application until last week, at which – is that correct? I think that’s correct. It’s the information I have. That is a large document, which is currently being reviewed.
CHAIR – It is 4000 pages.
Ms OGILVIE – Yes, large document.
CHAIR – We’ve heard about it.
Ms OGILVIE – That’s currently being reviewed. We do know that the POSS process overrides some of the original –
Ms O’CONNOR – Wouldn’t you want that advice anyway as Heritage Minister?
Ms OGILVIE – Regulations and laws and processes that we have in place. I am aware of the Goods Shed issue. The Heritage Council has made a decision on that which is available publicly. I don’t have specific information in relation to the Cenotaph, but certainly –
Ms O’CONNOR – I’m just –
Ms OGILVIE – I am very interested –
Ms O’CONNOR – I am stunned.
Ms OGILVIE – I am very interested in cultural heritage generally –
Ms O’CONNOR – But you’re not interested enough, minister, with respect, apparently –
Ms OGILVIE – Particularly the archaeological site.
Ms O’CONNOR – To ask your Heritage Council for some advice –
Ms OGILVIE – I think that is –
Ms O’CONNOR – On the values particularly of the Cenotaph. Particularly of the Cenotaph.
Ms OGILVIE – Now we have a –
Ms O’CONNOR – But the whole place is rich with cultural heritage.
Ms OGILVIE – Indeed, which is what I’ve been trying to say.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes. But why haven’t you sought advice?
Ms OGILVIE – We now have a development application so it might be now is the correct time to do that.
Ms O’CONNOR – Might be or will be? Will you be seeking from the Heritage Council, which apparently has abrogated its number 1 core function –
Ms OGILVIE – I don’t think that that’s a fair characterisation of the Heritage Council.
Ms O’CONNOR – It’s in the legislation.
Ms OGILVIE – What I was just about to say is that I will certainly be seeking advice from the department on this issue, and I would have an update for you in a matter of weeks.
CHAIR – Thank you. Thanks, minister.
Ms O’CONNOR – No, the council’s your –
CHAIR – Ms Webb.
Ms O’CONNOR – Expert body there and –
Ms OGILVIE – I can’t direct them. Yes.
Ms O’CONNOR – No, but they’ve got an obligation under the act and you know it, and you should have sought advice.
CHAIR – Ms Webb. Thank you.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thank you, Chair. Minister, will you seek advice from the Tasmanian Heritage Council on the impact on the heritage Cenotaph, particularly, but also of the Goods Shed, and do you know whether the Tasmanian Heritage Council supports or believes it is feasible to relocate the Goods Shed? Has that had the tick from the council, which you think would take an interest in this matter.
Ms OGILVIE – Yes, absolutely, and I see you choosing your words carefully, which I appreciate.
Ms O’CONNOR – I try to.
Ms OGILVIE – The information I am getting from the department is that because the development application has just been released – it is large. What did we say? 4000 pages. Their views have not been expressed yet, but I would anticipate that they will be expressed.
Ms O’CONNOR – To you as minister?
Ms OGILVIE – And that will come through the department to me, and to others. I would have line of sight on that, I am getting nods. But in relation to the feasibility question, which is a bit different –
Ms O’CONNOR – Sorry, feasible. It would protect the heritage values of the Goods Shed.
Ms OGILVIE – Yes.
Ms O’CONNOR – That it is feasible to do it and retain those values.
Ms OGILVIE – I understand. Has the Heritage Council made a determination about the Goods Shed and its heritage values. That is the determination and the constraints of that, are what we have to know about the dialogue and the investigations that they have done around that. In relation to a question of feasibility I am not certain.
Ms O’CONNOR – Or whether they believe it is possible?
Ms OGILVIE – Yes. I can give you a little information about what they said. I will be really quick.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes, please. Yes.
Ms OGILVIE – A permanent listing, which has occurred, does not prevent development of a site or place from being developed. Listing on the Register does not prohibit the Goods Shed from being relocated. But the question of feasibility is a separate –
Ms O’CONNOR – Sure. But that doesn’t mean the Heritage Council supports its relocation. Will you seek advice from the council on the heritage impacts from the stadium to the Goods Shed?
Ms OGILVIE – What I am advised is if relocation of the Goods Shed is considered an option, the Heritage Council would require the applicant to satisfy its works guidelines. There is a process there.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes. I will be following this up with you, particularly in relation to the Cenotaph and the Goods Shed, because you should have advice from the Heritage Council, as they are statutorily required to do.
Ms OGILVIE – Now the development application has been made available we will probably see that information come forward.
