Ms O’CONNOR – On the LGCs, page 56 of the annual report under current financial assets, to explain how it works where in the previous year, there’s a flat line next to large scale generation certificates shortfall and then $15 million this year and how that works.
Mr CHISHOLM – As part of the renewable energy trade‑in scheme to try to help participants, there’s an option where you can shortfall. You have an obligation for a particular calendar year of LGCs, but under the scheme you can shortfall. What this allows businesses to do is instead of, for example, for the calendar 23 certificates instead of surrendering the whole liability with calendar 23 certificates, you would buy certificates in a future period, say calendar 25. The reason you would do that is they’re cheaper. You would use those certificates instead of the calendar 23, but you’d only need to surrender those off the back of the calendar 25. What the requirement is that you actually pay the shortfall payment. It’s $65 –
CHAIR – The difference.
Mr CHISHOLM – No, this is a pure $65 price that you pay per certificate. When we pay that, the cash goes out the door and we recognise this asset. In terms of the actual renewable energy liability which runs through the PNL, it’s a combination of –
Ms O’CONNOR – What’s the PNL?
Mr CHISHOLM – Profit and loss statement. What runs through the profit and loss statement is a reflection of the price that we’ve acquired these cal 25 certificates and the cal 23. It’s a blended price. The reason we’ve done it is we have been able to get certificates in the future at a lower price. The cost for the business is the cost of carry, because we’ve got to pay the cash out and then once we surrender those cal 25 certificates, we get this money refunded to us. It’s basically money we put up, money we get back once we surrender the certificates we’ve shortfalled in that calendar 23 period. That amount there relates to calendar 22 certificates. We’ve done it twice, once on the cal 22 and then if you look in the non‑current, we do have the 2023s in there as well.
CHAIR – It’s about $27 million due to be refunded. Is that right?
Mr CHISHOLM – That’s right. But it’s not a full $27 million cash impact to us because the cash impact to us is the difference between what we would have to have bought and surrender those certificates within that year. It’s really the price difference. For example, if we had an option to buy the calendar 23 certificates at $50 but we’ve now paid the $65, is a $15 certificate amount. What you can’t see and hear, this is the straight $65 amount. But, what you can’t see is the benefit we’ve had in our cashflow by not having to surrender those other certificates. But, there is a cost of care. The cost of care is the difference between that price we would have had to pay for those certificates and the actual shortfall amount.
Obviously, we look at this economically and we make sure there is financial benefit to Aurora.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thank you. In TASCORP’s Annual Report, they detail the number of their clients and the client advances, they’re called, minister. It’s probably good news, but Aurora Energy in the last two financial years has had zero-dollar client advances from TASCORP, unlike most other GBEs there.
Do you want to take the opportunity, minister, to talk about how good that is?
CHAIR – You just joined the Liberal Party.
Ms O’CONNOR – Longtime liberal. Yeah.
Mr DUIGAN – Certainly happy to pass to the chair or the CEO to communicate the goodness of that news.
Ms O’CONNOR – And also in the broader context of the debt that’s carried by Aurora and how you are managing that?
Mr CHISHOLM – We effectively don’t have any debt in in our operations at the moment. Obviously, that’s a good thing for us.
Our main support that we require, which TASCORP gives us, is effectively when you’re in the wholesale national electricity market there is a lot of credit support you have to provide. What you see is lines of support, effectively, that we need to carry the volume of business that we do in the national market.
The main support we have, it’s not a loan, but it’s basically lines of support from TASCORP. But, as far as debt itself, you’re spot on, we have zero debt.
Ms O’CONNOR – There’s something in here about earnings from borrowings. There’s the repayment of borrowings on page 44, and then proceeds from borrowing. Those borrowings are the money you’re talking about just now, through your minister, which are short-term lending’s in order to trade?
Mr CLARK – Correct. But, the borrowings you’re talking about there is we will within a month – obviously cashflows vary – we might have a big payment due to AEMO tomorrow. We might have a short-term borrowing for two days and then we’ll pay it back. Our net position is we’re not in debt, but we will have monies going in and out depending on the cycle of a cashflow.
But the support that they provide us, that we provide to AEMO is effectively dictated by the rules of being in the national market.
Ms O’CONNOR – The covenant breach the Chair asked about before, given you don’t have a substantive standing debt to TASCORP, that covenant breach was over short-term lending to trade was it and repayment of that?
Mr CHISHOLM – That’s just more under our syndicated facility requirements. We have these facilities in place which allow us to provide working capital as the CEO outlined to manage our day-to-day. It also provides us lines of guarantees, bank guarantees which we need to post to AEMO in order to manage our prudential requirements. Basically that’s our contract with TASCORP that says it has a range of covenants. One of them is around the movement in net position. Regardless of how much we’ve drawn down, it’s more about what the covenants are within the actual loan documents we have with TASCORP where this has come about?
Ms O’CONNOR – Would it be, is it possible to share with the committee, and through you, minister, an understanding of how much is borrowed from TASCORP on a short-term basis in a year in order to do that trading?
CHAIR – Is that the $110 million here turned around, in and out. $120 million last year.
Ms O’CONNOR – I gather there’s quite large sums.
Mr CHISHOLM – There are large sums, but it’s not the 110. The 110 rarely reflects an aggregation of we’ve borrowed, we’ve paid back. It aggregates all the borrowings, and all the drawdowns we’ve done and all the payback. But it doesn’t say that we’ve drawn down 110 and then paid back 110. We could draw down 10, pay back 10, draw down 20, payback 20, and what that does –
CHAIR – That’s a cumulative over the year.
Mr CHISHOLM – That’s a cumulative amount over a year. Typically, if we are drawing down, it is in a $20‑30 million type level.
Ms O’CONNOR – Over the year, or at any one purchase point?
Mr CHISHOLM – At a point in time. I think it’s AEMO payments, it’s TasNetwork payments. You know, we have to pay AEMO, we have to pay TasNetworks, before our customers pay us. This really is working capital. We could have an occasion where have to pay out AEMO, pay our TasNetworks. We have to draw down a bit of money.
CHAIR – They don’t like to be paid late.
Mr CHISHOLM – No.
Ms O’CONNOR – TASCORP is like an ATM, almost, for you?
Mr CHISHOLM -Yes. They provide working capital facilities, pretty much – almost like a bank overdraft facility that you are tapping into, which we need in order to manage. We wouldn’t be able to survive without it.
Ms O’CONNOR – Of course. Okay.
CHAIR – AEMO won’t be paid late.
Mr CLARK – We have people on quarterly billing, so a good example is quarterly billing. We’ve paid out nearly three months worth of energy and network costs before the customer pays us.
Ms O’CONNOR – I want to talk about your Power Hours program. The annual report here on page 4 talks about the Power Hours. So, a program that’s been in place since January 2024 has saved all the Tasmanians who are involved a total of $305,000.
What is the average saving per Power Hours event? Because our maths and you know, I can’t vouch for this, is that it’s $0.75 per power hours event.
Mr DUIGAN – I think I can update your $305,000 to $461,000 since launch January 2024 until presumably about now.
In terms of how that number is calculated and whether the two mathematical equations will line up, I think probably is a matter for the chair.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yeah. I’m trying to ascertain what’s the real savings here. Because it looks and sounds good. But then when you go into the actual contract, the terms and conditions, all the power is with Aurora. People are locked in to a time slot on the app that they can’t change. All the discretion to cancel Power Hours is with Aurora. All discretion to change terms and conditions again with Aurora.
So, we don’t want this to look like a marketing tool. We want it to look like a genuine cost-of-living – well, we want it to be – a genuine cost-of-living measure.
So, what’s the understanding of what a household might say who has signed up to Power Hours? And presumably the Power Hours are not in peak time. So, is there an understanding of what’s being saved by eligible, that is, households who’ve signed up?
Mr CLARK – I’ll ask my chief customer officer, Will Barbour, to come up. He looks after this area. But, while Will is coming to the table, just to put on the record that there’s a number of things there. It’s obviously not forced on anybody. People don’t have to sign up. It’s free through the aurora+ app for people to engage. We never put out there any rules from the point of view of them changing those rules. It is effectively a loyalty and a cost-of-living support measure that we voluntary introduced.
Will can elaborate a little bit more on some of your other questions.
Ms O’CONNOR – Do you want me to repeat them, Will, because you’ve come from far to be at the table?
CHAIR – For the purpose of Hansard.
Mr CLARK – At the table, Will Barbour, chief customer officer of Aurora Energy.
Mr BARBOUR – I think I’m comfortable with the question, but thank you for the opportunity to clarify.
A bit of background, Power Hours, as you say, is available to residential customers. One of the components of that – of the value proposition – is indeed that: value. But it’s important to remember that, as we’ve heard a couple of times so far, another part of it is engagement. What we see is engagement with aurora+ and visibility over energy consumption can actually lead part of that building block of energy literacy can actually lead to greater savings.
We understand that Power Hours events, and I will come back to the average savings in a tick. Power Hours events don’t necessarily change the bill significantly within a particular month, but that’s not necessarily its aim. It’s around understanding. And what we see is when people have the ability to understand their usage, get themselves under the right tariff and then actually control the consumption, that can really drive the bills down.
The average saving is a bit of a blunt read unfortunately with the annual report because power hours you save as much as you use. If you activate a slot of one of the many slots, and some of those are peak times, many off peak but some of them are peak, and then don’t use electricity outside of, say, your fridge, then it’s going to record a low saving.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay. How does it work in terms of peak times? Is Aurora wanting to encourage people to use less during peak times? Do you want to knock the top off the peaks? Is that part of what’s happening? Or are they offered as Power Hours?
Mr BARBOUR– They are. If you take for example the Christmas event which has been available for a few days now, that runs across almost a week and there are peak and off-peak slots available.
Coming back to the idea of building energy literacy and understanding though, we certainly see when we look at our figures that most Tasmanians, the majority of Tasmanians would be better off on a time of use tariff. When we look at that, we look at historical data, and the customers who return the best customer experience survey metrics to us are those who are on time of use, who are tracking their energy consumption and making use of the peak and off-peak. Part of Power Hours is building understanding that peak and off-peak exists and if you leverage that you can actually drive your bill down.
Ms O’CONNOR – So, is there a plan? Is Power Hours going to become a permanent feature of Aurora’s operations? Is there any plan to extend or expand it?
Mr BARBOUR– It’s fully embedded. It’s been running for almost one year. Late January earlier this year was the first event and it’s approaching its one-year anniversary. As I say, there’s an event for a few weeks’ time and the next one will be in January. It’s now part of our proposition.
Ms O’CONNOR – Can I just ask, now that you’ve got an app in place and you’ve got Power Hours that is making people more aware of their usage, have you noticed any changes in power consumption from people who have the app?
Mr BARBOUR– I’m not sure I can answer that. As for broader consumption, we certainly do see shifts in usage patterns.
Ms O’CONNOR – From individual households?
Mr BARBOUR– That’s right. The proposition shows that people understand if you shift your energy, they will shift their energy to use an event, and one of the core components of the proposition is building that literacy. Then we tend to see a higher usage or proportion of aurora+ users on time of use tariffs because they have that visibility and we know that that tends to drive their bills down should they use the time of use tariff accordingly.
Mr CLARK – Most engaged customers also come out very clearly as those with an advanced meter with aurora+, typically monthly billing and a time of use tariffs.
Ms O’CONNOR – Right on top of it.
Mr CLARK – We do extensive quarterly surveys and it gives us that proof point that if we can get that sweet spot for a lot of people, then they are the more engaged and satisfied customers.
CHAIR – And they cook the turkey in the free hour.
Ms O’CONNOR – You can’t cook a turkey in an hour, Ruth.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thanks, Chair. How many other retailers are operating in Tasmania at the moment?
Mr CLARK – Will, would you like to cover this one, thanks?
Mr BARBOUR – Happy to. So, within the large customer segments, it’s essentially two. Then, within the small customer segment, which is where the bulk of our customers sit across residential and SMB, is Aurora, and probably four active retailers and then some others who are very niche and probably approach very low numbers of customers with quite targeted niche propositions. We would typically keep an eye on four other retailers.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay. I’m interested to learn what ‘keeping an eye on’ means. So, in terms of the larger customers, you identified one other retailer in that space. Who’s that?
Mr BARBOUR – Do you want to speak to this one, James, or do you want me to run –
Mr CHISHOLM – I can pick this one up. So that’s Shell – ERM was bought out by Shell. So, they’ve been competing in this market.
Ms O’CONNOR – Shell, the fossil fuel company?
Mr CHISHOLM – Yes.
Ms O’CONNOR – Oh, great.
Mr CHISHOLM – Yes, since 2014, so they have about 30 per cent of the market for C and I [commercial and industrial] customers.
Ms O’CONNOR – Well, I hope you retain your share and more. So, the question is when, if a customer comes to Aurora and says, ‘I’ve got a better deal out of another retailer,’ what is the response and how does Aurora make sure it’s not behaving in a mercenary, corporatist way while protecting its interests?
CHAIR – Predatory.
Ms O’CONNOR – What was that, sorry?
CHAIR – Predatory.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes, predatory, which is not in Aurora’s DNA, but also there’s more competition here. You need to protect Aurora’s interest. You may have customers moving for one reason or another. How does Aurora respond to that?
Mr CLARK – I’ll ask Will again. There’s numerous retention strategies that we’ll employ and maybe if you just elaborate a little bit further. Thanks.
Mr BARBOUR – Yes, happy to. It’s a good question. So, there is obviously a level of detail here that I would rather avoid given that we operate in a competitive environment –
Ms O’CONNOR – Sure.
Mr BARBOUR – But I will say probably first and foremost, we’re very much conscious of our market share and our origin as as a true 100 per cent monopoly market share retailer, but conscious of the market share we have today and, as you say, good corporate citizens, it’s not in our DNA to behave badly. So, we keep that in mind with everything we do.
One of the things that’s risen out of a competitive environment, we very much diversified our proposition. So, things like aurora+ and Power Hours, which there is that loyalty component to Power Hours, our product suite, some of the focus we place on things like time-of-use tariffs and helping customers to understand. So there’s that extra value, and then some of the other aspects to broader proposition energy efficiency and channels to market.
It’s an evolution and there’s that diversification of our product suite and our channels but, essentially, we try to work with a customer to find value for them and ensure that we’re doing the best thing by them.
Ms O’CONNOR – Is that a slightly longer way of saying there is direct contact? If a customer says, ‘I’m out, I’ve had enough of you guys, I’ve got a cheaper arrangement,’ there would be direct contact from Aurora to that customer to explore why they were making that choice and try to talk them out of it.
Mr BARBOUR – Yes, that’s correct.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay. The time-of-use tariffs, which I gather are the best value for money for customers, why are they not the default? Does that require the app or why is it not just a broad offering for all customers?
Mr DUIGAN – Certainly my understanding is if people would like to adopt a time-of-use tariff, that is absolutely something that they can do, noting that, if you if you establish a new connection to a new home, for example, that that would be the default. The time-of-use tariff would be the default, noting there is an option for a market offering flat-rate tariff.
CHAIR – What’s the tariff number for anyone who might be watching and wanted to check if they’re on it?
Mr DUIGAN – Tariff number, it’s not 31 or 41. Is it 22?
Ms O’CONNOR – If you could do this.
Mr CLARK – The flat rate is 31/41 and 93 is the residential.
Ms O’CONNOR – Good on you for having a go. At the table and all. That was terrific.
Regarding the not larger customer base, the major industrials and the like, but the broader customer base for retailers in Tasmania, how much does Aurora hold?
CHAIR – Residential and business?
Ms O’CONNOR – Residential and business, not major industrials. Given that you once had 100 per cent of the share, where are we now?
Ms NYLANDER – Ninety‑three?
Mr CLARK – About 93 per cent.
Ms O’CONNOR – Are you seeing that fundamentally hold?
Mr CLARK – It fluctuates at different times of the year. It can be moving down. We have fought hard, as you said earlier. It’s important for us to maintain critical size of our base. We fight hard to try and hold that ground. That’s the easiest way to put it.
Ms O’CONNOR – Does Aurora have any engagement with TasGas and gas as a source of power.
CHAIR – They’re called Solstice now.
Ms O’CONNOR – Oh, sorry.
Mr CLARK – Yes, they are the distributor for gas. Our only official dealing with them is we have a small amount of gas customers, so we pay them for the distribution that they do. That’s effectively it.
Ms O’CONNOR – As far as we know, what’s happening with the gas market? Do we know?
Mr CLARK – It’s pretty much flat. Not growing based on the numbers we would see anyway. It doesn’t seem to be actively growing in the small end, no.
Ms O’CONNOR – Great.
Ms O’CONNOR – The right to information on page 30 of the annual report talks about three applications that were received for assessed disclosures. Only one of them was the information released in full. Then there’s been an internal review and an outcome and Aurora decided to waive its right to an exemption. What was the application released in full in relation to? I’m sure it’ll be on the assessed disclosure spot somewhere deep in the website.
Mr DUIGAN – I will seek a bit of detail on that.
Ms O’CONNOR – Three RTIs in a year is not a huge volume.
Mr CLARK – That one relates to a customer wanted customer usage data information and we gave it in full to them.
Ms O’CONNOR – The other two were not refused, were they released in part to your knowledge?
Mr CLARK – Correct.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay. We have varying approaches to right to information across government agencies and the Integrity Commission’s written a helpful report about some of the activities of the health department. Philosophically, what is Aurora’s approach to right to information? Is it wherever possible to actively disclose and to be open in the spirit of the act or not?
Mr CLARK – A simple answer would be we would always seek to comply with the act. Obviously, the delicate issues at times would simply be ones of commercial confidentiality that may come into play with certain types of contracts and the like. Otherwise, I think we would always seek to participate within the spirit of the regulation.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes, the health department said that too, but they weren’t, but I’m sure that Aurora is. Is there a delegated RTI officer with Aurora?
Mr BURKE – Yes there is. Our company secretary, general counsel is the RTI officer and also our head of legal risk and compliance. To elaborate on Nigel’s answer, one of the reasons why if you look over a number of years, Aurora’s had quite low RTI requests is because we have endeavoured where possible to release information without having to go down that formal process. Obviously, there are situations where requests come through where it might relate to protected areas under the act where we’ll, as Nigel said, refer to the specifics of the act for guidance on those decisions. Generally, we’ve always taken a proactive release stance where possible.
Ms O’CONNOR – That’s really good to hear.
Mr CLARK – The other thing we’re doing is investing in CDR, if you think about consumer rights, we are in throes of that project at the moment which –
CHAIR – What’s that stand for?
Mr CLARK – Consumer data rights. That will give a more simple ability for someone to request their historical usage for instance, of their national meter identifier and they might then use that to go and talk to a vendor or some other provider. We are busy delivering the CDR project this year. That’s another form of consumer rights.
Ms O’CONNOR – And that’s not something that requires a legislative change or anything. That would come down to an Aurora policy that’s applied.
Mr CLARK – Yes. Actually we’re fulfilling a regulatory obligation Australia-wide on CDR. That was in a national regulation –
Ms O’CONNOR – A national regulatory, okay.
Mr CLARK – That that was then brought down through into the states. Not dissimilar to what the banks and some of the other industries went through with CDR.
Ms O’CONNOR – Presumably all Tasmanian GBEs will have to apply CDR consumer data rights principles or –
Mr CLARK – I’m not sure.
Ms O’CONNOR – I know you can’t but –
Mr CLARK – I can only speak for energy.
Ms O’CONNOR – You’ve got a few GBEs under your belt, minister.
Mr DUIGAN – Yep and I would need to take that one on notice to say whether that national work had filtered through into other areas, noting that some of those other businesses probably don’t hold the same level of consumer data -.
Ms O’CONNOR – Customer data, yes.
Mr CLARK – Yep.
Mr DUIGAN – and where the risks and the rewards lie.
Ms O’CONNOR – When we talk about consumer data rights, we’re talking about the individual electricity consumer? We’re not talking about a person having a right, for example, to access information about what’s charged to major power users in Tasmania when the power is given away?
Mr CLARK – No. This is simply your data of your consumption of your NMI, effectively.
Ms O’CONNOR – Your individual data rights. Okay. Thanks.
CHAIR – Good try.
Ms O’CONNOR – Always trying.
Ms O’CONNOR – I loved that line of questioning. It was very good. What’s the full‑time equivalent workforce of Aurora this year as at now?
Ms HUNT – The full‑time equivalent at the end of the financial year was 282 employees.
Ms O’CONNOR – Does that include the call centre staff?
Ms HUNT – Yes.
Ms O’CONNOR – How does that compare to the employment, the workforce at Aurora, in previous times? Are we seeing staff numbers increase or are there plans to maintain that level of staff?
Mr DUIGAN – Look, thank you, and I think I relatively recently looked at staffing levels in Aurora and I’d say there has been a modest increase in head count over time, perhaps in the last three years that I looked at, from sort of 280 to that circa 300. But I’m sure Nigel probably has a better understanding of what the longer-term trajectory of employment at Aurora looks like.
Mr CLARK – Thanks minister. Yeah, it’s true to say in the last three or so years, the numbers increased fundamentally due to the billing system transition that the company was going through. So, it led to a build-up that would just naturally lead to some decrease over the coming years. But we would just see that as natural attrition. So, we are slightly higher than where you would say our historical level is.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thanks, Nigel, and so it sounds like from what you just said though there’s no planning to remove or get rid of those extra staff who’ve come on board, it’s an attrition process, so, you won’t be filling some vacancies and you’ll be juggling as you go.
Mr CLARK – That’s correct. Our call centres always have a fairly healthy attrition rate. So, we just see that the natural events will take care of numbers over time.
Ms O’CONNOR – What’s the total staffing roughly in the call centre? How big is it?
Ms HUNT – It might be one for Alastair actually to answer. But if I could just slightly correct my previous number that I provided, it’s actually 294, not 280.
Ms O’CONNOR – So, the minister was right when you said it was nudging 300.
Ms HUNT – He did. He was spot on. He’s all over the numbers.
CHAIR – He’s out recruiting the other six.
Ms HUNT – I think Alistair can, instead of me taking a rough guess and can probably provide –
Mr BURKE – Yeah, that’s right and there are different lenses you can look at it through. I guess across our entire operational team, at the moment we’re about 170, which makes up a big part of our business. But that’s not just our call centre facing teams. We also have a significant what we call our sort of meter-to-cash operations, which is all about metering, billing, credit management, all those sorts of teams as well, which sit in our operational area. In our call, more of our customer operations customer channel facing teams, there’s around 70 to 75, but even that number includes obviously team leaders, support roles. We have a customer advocacy team, which is sort of heightened support, complaints management functions. So, there’s a variety of roles within that number. They’re not all call-taking roles, and I think across our entire operational area what we see is there’s always opportunities for people to move through different roles, whether it be project-based or just working on a focus of the business at a point in time. So, there can be a lot of movement within our operational area when different opportunities arise.
Ms O’CONNOR – Thank you for that answer. Does Aurora actively encourage those career pathways for the staff you want to retain? Is that an explicit and active push?
Mr CLARK – Yes, it is. There’s numerous and I will let Nicole and Alistair elaborate. But certainly, for our internal paths, talent development, leadership development, there’s extensive programs that we run. But, Nicole, would you like to maybe elaborate?
Ms HUNT – I think the beauty of the call centre environment is it’s not always about progression into a higher role, into a leadership role. There’s multiple areas of career development which can take you into some of the more specialised skill sets. So, whether that’s in our credit advocacy, metering type of teams and then, as indicated, we have our development programs to support those particularly in leadership or specific capabilities that people have those kind of innate skills in across the business.
Ms O’CONNOR – Does Aurora have a graduate program?
Ms HUNT – We don’t have a graduate program at the moment. Previously, we have utilised more of an intern type of program. We’ve been pretty focused on some of our core strategic objectives over the last few years. So that’s something that we have a program waiting. When the timing is right for the business, that’s something that we would look to execute for the right types of roles, again, within the business.
Ms NYLANDER – We have Emerging Leaders and we participate in that.
Ms HUNT – We do, Emerging Leaders, participate in that.
Ms O’CONNOR – Okay, emerging leaders from within the organisation who you talent‑spot, you pick out and provide the opportunity to –
Ms NYLANDER – Yes, as part of the succession planning. Obviously there are different tiers all throughout the business. That is a work in progress now.
Ms O’CONNOR – That’s good.
Mr CLARK – We have KPIs that go to the point of – obviously promotions/appointments coming from within, but also we track heavily those that we identify as talent and that we retain. We’re very focused on internal growth. I’m not ‘parachuting’ people into the organisation.
Ms O’CONNOR – Yes. Thank you.
CHAIR – Just on that, in terms of increasing diversity around your board table, do you have intern programs for board, for a board intern?
Ms NYLANDER – No, but we have talked about that, and that is part of the review discussion that we have undertaken with the other GBEs and SOCs. I know that’s in some of the – well, it’s certainly in a former board, Tasmanian Bank of Us. I was part of facilitating that there, and we’ve had discussions. We are looking at how we can get more diversity and experience on the board, and not just in terms of permanency.
