Mr BAYLEY - I'd like to ask a bit about people and culture. Your annual report talks about the past year and the great staff you've got and the way they've bounced back post-COVID. We talked about that a little bit earlier and that's very welcome, but in hearings in the other place yesterday in relation to TasNetworks we heard that through some proactive surveying and other engagement mechanisms, they've uncovered that there's a quite disturbing culture of bullying and other completely unacceptable behaviours.
Can you outline for the committee what TT-Line does in terms of staff surveys and the kinds of opportunities you give to staff to give honest and frank feedback about their experiences working for you? That's acknowledging that ships can be difficult places to work, with tight confined spaces and the like. It probably speaks to the fact that you need to give a really good opportunity for staff to give frank feedback about their experiences and any problems that may exist.
Mr GRAINGER - I'll certainly throw to Bernard but I will say that every month the board is provided with a list of areas that concern employees and also a list of injuries on board or injuries in the workplace, medical treatment injuries, lost-time injuries, so it's quite a comprehensive report. We monitor the staff closely in terms of many issues but I'll let Bernard answer a bit more specifically.
Mr DWYER - We started our journey on this about six years ago when we developed and continued to have what we call our Spirited Leader program - excuse the marketing - which involves all of our leadership members, hotel managers, senior crew on board, supervisors on ship and shore. They are all trained in the aspects of what is acceptable behaviour, what is the process of hearing complaints or providing responses to any complaints we have, as well as external organisations that support us in that as well. We don't go the old way of surveying all of our staff that was into the 1990s, 2000s and 2010s. We now take the approach where we actually go out and talk to people and make sure we are in front of everybody as much as we can. We have that rapport and I certainly have with everyone I talk to in the company my office door as open.
That's the old cliche but I have a lot of people who will come to me, we discuss what they are talking about and then we have always said we will go back through the management structure to resolve it, but anyone can talk to anyone. As we are aware, sometimes you can't talk to your manager, you feel uncomfortable talking to your manager, but they feel very comfortable walking in to another area or office to do that.
Mr BAYLEY - I can appreciate that and I appreciate the work you are doing there but it seems certainly in the TasNetworks case it was active staff surveying and inviting their responses that has sort of unpacked. I am sure if we asked TasNetworks last year they would talk about the fact they haven't had any complaints and there was no problems and so forth. Do you just rely on proactive complaint approaches from staff or do you feel as if staff are given appropriate opportunity to be raising their concerns?
Mr DWYER - Yes, absolutely, but we're also training all of our leaders to observe and understand if something is happening in the workplace and have the support and the comfort to actually investigate that as well. Sometimes you need to be very careful with surveys because they can be used in the wrong way as well, so it is probably a fairer question to go and ask one of my crew or one of my staff what they think. I am sure they will tell you.
Mr BAYLEY - Have you had any complaints over the last 12 months?
Mr DWYER - We have had complaints, probably not over the 12 months but certainly going into COVID-19 and out of COVID-19. I mean we had a lot of concern in our business about the mental health of our people on board because they weren't allowed to get off the ships. So, I am not going to say they were 'stuck on the ships'. We provided for them very well but it was a change for the crew. It was very hard for the crew and the people ashore as well. So I wouldn't say there was complaints but more that we were very aware of the mental stress it would take so we did a whole range of activities and set up new facilities for our crew.
I think everyone around this table would appreciate that maritime especially on ships over the years is a unique workplace. I think we've seen a remarkable turnaround in our workplace and I don't think the reticence to talk about things that shouldn't really happen is there anymore.
Mr BAYLEY - Can I put the question in another way, just one more question, thank you chair. Have you had any complaints for which you have had to take further action or investigations.
Mr DWYER - Yes.
Mr BAYLEY - Can you detail what they are?
Mr DWYER - I wouldn't detail that.
Mr BAYLEY - Not in detail but in broad terms, I don't want the specifics obviously but -
Mr DWYER - In broad terms it may be bullying or something like that or perceived bullying -
Mr BAYLEY - How many instances?
Mr DWYER - One or two.
Mr BAYLEY - In the last year?
Mr DWYER - Yes, maybe three in the 12 month period. We are firm but fair and everyone is very aware in our company of what the culture is and what is acceptable and what is not acceptable and everyone in the business is accountable -
Mr BAYLEY - Anything pertaining to sexual harassment or abuse?
Mr DWYER - Not that I am aware of, no.
Mr BAYLEY - More on people and culture because there's not a lot of detail or specifics in your reporting. You might need to take this on notice. Do you have figures on gender balance across the business, in the different sector sections? I'd be interested in gender balance across the different sections of the business, across the board of directors and management team. Specifically, have you done any work to identify the gender pay gap between people in different sections. The earnings between men and women across the business at different levels of the organisation?
Mr DWYER - Can I get that for you?
Mr BAYLEY - Yes, please.
Mr DWYER - We were doing our research and listening to other hearings as well. In relation to our salaried employees, remembering a majority of our employees are on an EBA. There's no distinction in the EBA from a gender perspective, it's purely based on what roles the genders are. As you'd imagine, it's been very male dominated, the physical part of shipping. From our salaried employees, the female to male gap was $27 900 last year. It's very hard -
Mr BAYLEY - A gap?
Mr DWYER - A gap. It's very hard, without knowing what the numbers were within each level of male to female. That may look like a large gap but it isn’t when you look at like for like. That’s improved this year. It's down to $26 000, so a $2000 decrease.
In relation to the leadership team, it’s a $9000 difference. That's down to $8600 annually for the leadership team. We are very proud of our work in this. There is no job that is not open to everyone in the business. I cannot wait for the day when I have a female skipper. I don’t think the company has ever had a female skipper. That obviously takes time for that generational change and people coming through the training and doing the time required for that.
They are the figures from a male-female percentage split. All employees, 50 per cent male, 45 per cent female. For senior managers, 59 per cent male, 41 per cent female. Very close but you need to look at the functions. That's the same with any business. Some of those functions are dominant.
Mr BAYLEY - Is that in a format you can provide to the committee? Minister or chair are you happy to do that?
Mr DWYER - We can do that.
