Dr WOODRUFF - Minister, you wanted some questions specifically about the commission of inquiry's report. I note that former premier, Peter Gutwein, originally promised to close Ashley Youth Detention Centre by the end of 2024. Minister, you are one of the very few ministers who was mentioned by name in the commission of inquiry's report. They said:
The Tasmanian Government has previously announced its intention to close Ashley Youth Detention Centre by the end of 2024. On 31 July 2023, minister Jaensch cast doubt on this closure. We are gravely concerned by any suggestion of further delay. The Government must close Ashley Youth Detention Centre as soon as possible.
We've heard many weasel words, I think, people might use for your stated decisions about why you are further kicking the can down the road on closing Ashley. Can you admit to the committee today that your decision to delay the closure of Ashley past 2024 is a direct contradiction to the wishes of the commission of inquiry?
Mr JAENSCH - We accept recommendation 12.1, its content and its time frame, unconditionally. We will close Ashley and have a better purpose-built detention facility as part of a reformed youth justice system in place to receive those who courts have sentenced to detention by mid-2026, as indicated by the commission.
In relation to the previous announcement from the Government regarding a time frame given in September 2021 by premier Gutwein at the time that Ashley would close within a period and would be replaced by two smaller facilities, one in the north and one in the south, that was the package he announced. He gave a time frame and made a budget commitment towards giving that effect.
Subsequently, when I was made minister responsible for Youth Justice, again I brought forward a model which the advice I had said would deliver a better outcome than two smaller Ashleys, one in the north and one in the south. We brought to parliament alongside the draft blueprint a draft facilities model which indicated one smaller, more specialised therapeutic facility in the south, supported by a range of services and facilities around the state, providing assisted bail and supported accommodation for young people who we could either divert from a period of detention or support as they departed detention and re-entered the community.
That was based on the themes arising through the blueprint for a therapeutic approach and aimed to have as few as possible young people in detention in our youth justice system and more receiving support to not being in detention and to not return to criminal behaviour in the future. That model was different, it was more sophisticated, it was better and it will be more expensive than the one that premier Gutwein announced with a time frame in September 2021. That model has been well received and is the one we are progressing with. It is the reason why I made the statement that the commission of inquiry referred to that the time frame for delivering it might be different from the one that premier Gutwein had announced. I have been very open about that. Similarly, we have been very open about our commitment to the time frame indicated by the commission of inquiry and we're committed to delivering that.
Dr WOODRUFF - I want to correct you on the time frame of the commission of inquiry. At the writing of the commission of inquiry report, on 13 July 2023, at the very final stages they were wrapping up, they were of the understanding at that point that your Government was still progressing towards a 2024 timeline, so your announcement filled them with enormous concern and it was precisely because you were indicating at that point that you were going to delay action.
When they made their recommendation of 2026, it was on the assumption that you would be moving rapidly, and they called for you to move rapidly, to urgently get children out of Ashley. The community is struggling to trust anything you say on Ashley because you are twisting the words not of the commission itself and suggesting that their extensive work and all of the 17 reviews and reports that had been done beforehand into appropriate therapeutic solutions, that somehow you've got a better idea and you know best. Can you see how the community is struggling to trust you as the minister responsible for this portfolio?
Mr JAENSCH - Our job is to come up with the best outcomes for young people and the community. The model we are working with now has been broadly supported: it was supported in the blueprint and was supported by the commission. The announcement and the date they are referring to, and that you have referred to again, was for a different model which wasn't a therapeutic model of care necessarily. It didn't have -
Dr WOODRUFF - It absolutely was. That is gaslighting the commission to say that.
Mr JAENSCH - Well, you can put whatever complexion to that you want, Dr Woodruff. I'm confident that what we've brought forward is a superior approach that will result in fewer young people experiencing the trauma of detention, particularly those who under different circumstances if there were other settings and services available would not be in detention.
We need to ensure that what we produce is something that the courts are prepared to use in their consideration of individual cases. We've got work to do. I'm confident that we're on the right track and that we can deliver a nation-leading response for youth justice, which is better than we would have had with what was originally announced as the alternative to Ashley at the time its closure was announced.
We will meet the time frames that the commission has laid out and it will be enabled by many of the other things the blueprint contains and that the commission recommends regarding diversion and therapeutic care and treatment of young people.
Dr WOODRUFF - I want to talk about the fact that your Government has repeatedly cited jobs in Deloraine as a key reason for why you wouldn't close Ashley.
Mr JAENSCH - We've announced that we're closing Ashley.
Dr WOODRUFF - A predecessor of yours, Jacquie Petrusma - who I note is now the commission of inquiry advisor to the Premier - said ahead of the 2018 state election that the decision of your Government to keep Ashley open was:
In making this decision, we sought to balance the needs of youth offenders with the importance of the Ashley Youth Detention facility and its 60 jobs in the Deloraine community.
We recognise that former premier Peter Gutwein broke with the long-term position of the Liberal Party to keep Ashley open but unfortunately it seems since his departure that commitment and that political courage has evaporated. Is the real reason the Government is again delaying closing Ashley as soon as possible for political considerations instead of the safety of children?
Mr JAENSCH - No, I reject that.
Dr WOODRUFF - Are you dragging your feet because you don't want to make a pre election announcement about closing Ashley because it would damage your chances? Are you actually putting political considerations ahead of the safety of children? That's what it looks like?
Mr JAENSCH - I'll leave the political theatre of this to you. You seem to enjoy it. I find it offensive, Dr Woodruff.
Dr WOODRUFF - Liberal politicians have mentioned jobs in Deloraine as a reason not to close Ashley multiple times.
Mr JAENSCH - I find it offensive that you characterise me in that regard.
Dr WOODRUFF - Do you call out other members of your party who have put the jobs at Deloraine anywhere in the scope of reasons of why Ashley Youth Detention Centre should be open? Do you call that out and condemn that?
Mr JAENSCH - I am absolutely committed to doing the best by young people who find themselves in conflict with the law, to prevent their criminal behaviour where possible, to keep themselves and the community safe, to prevent them from entering our youth justice system, and if they do, to prevent them being detained, which has a traumatising effect in itself, regardless of how well it is done.
For those who end up being in detention and sentenced by the courts, we owe them the opportunity to stabilise their wellbeing, to be able to understand the factors that have contributed to their criminal behaviour, to support them to manage those issues for themselves, and also to enable them to return to the community as safe and productive members with opportunities in their lives. That's what I'm for.
That's why, Dr Woodruff, I'm absolutely committed to the principles of our blueprint and the model of care that we're developing, and the facilities model that will enable that in our youth justice system.
Dr WOODRUFF - What would you describe as the key risks for children who are detained in Ashley today?
Mr JAENSCH - What would I describe as the key risks for the young people in Ashley today? These are children who have vulnerabilities and risks in themselves and of themselves because of their life experiences, the trauma in their lives, and the circumstances that engaged them in criminal behaviour in the first place. They're also in a detention environment, which the literature tells us the experience of detention in itself can be traumatising for them. Sometimes, they are in an environment with other young people who has similarly complex behaviours and experiences.
All of those things add risk, but where our police and court services have determined that detention is the best and safest option for them for their wellbeing and also for the community's safety, we have to have somewhere that can receive them and can provide the care and support they need. What we need to do more of is to ensure that isn't just a holding place, but that it is a therapeutic place where we work with those young people to assist them to manage and control their behaviour, to continue to receive education, to continue to engage in pro-social activities, to understand the consequences of their behaviour on others, to understand the factors that have led to their criminal behaviour, and to get in control of those, and to support them through and beyond their period in detention in our youth justice system, to return to the community with supports in place and through care and not just dropped back into the environments that led to them offending in the first place.
Dr WOODRUFF - Do you agree with the commission's finding there is a live and present risk of child sexual abuse of children in Ashley today?
Mr JAENSCH - I am not going to contest anything the commission has recorded in its findings or its recommendations. What I can speak to is, where risks are identified we have responded to them and will continue to ensure that Ashley Youth Detention Centre and other detention settings used from time to time are as safe as we can make them for young people, so they are safe.
Dr WOODRUFF - Why can't you make them properly safe? What do you mean by 'as safe as we can make them'? What is this -
Mr JAENSCH - Because you ask this all the time. It is a little bit of a trap. The day I say that children are safe in Ashley, I am somehow indicating we don't need to do anymore work on that. I refuse to put myself in that position. That is why we have committed to all the recommendations in the commission of inquiry's report, all the directions in our youth justice blueprint, and we will continue to work and invest to respond to every identified and any identified risk that exists for young people in our youth justice system.
I don't want you to keep trying to catch me out in this political way. When we talk about road trauma and when we talk about deaths on our roads, for example, there is no acceptable target other than zero. We need to keep doing everything we can to ensure safety in every setting where we have children where any of us exist.
We need to continually identify and respond to known risks and threats to the safety and wellbeing of young people and put measures in place to deal with them. This is what we have done in the existing Ashley Youth Detention Centre and what we will continue to do in every setting where we have young people in detention or in our youth and we will never ever stop looking for and dealing with potential risks to the wellbeing and safety of young people.
Dr WOODRUFF - Why do you keep referring to them as 'children with criminal behaviour' when 12 of the 15 there at the moment are only on remand? There has been no conviction for the majority of children who are there. You keep calling them criminals.
Mr JAENSCH - I don't believe -
Dr WOODRUFF - You say, 'children with criminal behaviour'. That is how you refer to them. The majority of those children have not been convicted of a crime; 12 out of 15 should be somewhere else if not - the whole lot should be somewhere else but there is no excuse.
Mr JAENSCH - At this stage the chain of events that led them to be in detention and the decision for them to be detained. Those decisions are made by courts. Our challenge in reform of our youth justice system is to give the courts more options when it comes to unsentenced young people and to reach upstream from that to before the offending behaviour takes place in early intervention and diversion, working with police and with the community sector, local governments and others, health, education to ensure we are identifying the pre conditions for offending behaviour earlier and wrapping services and supports around young people so they don't get to that point.
Dr WOODRUFF - I hope you stop referring to them as criminals, because they are not.
